Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#161

Post by bdamm » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #47

safog wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this after the president of the United States has incited a seditious, violet mob to attack the Capitol because he's a sore loser. There are many examples you can pick if you want to point out bias in media, day before yesterday was not one. For reference, conservative subreddits remain active, Donald Trump is the one that's banned.

> You say this after the president of the United States has incited a seditious, violet mob to attack the Capitol because he's a sore loser. By this logic pro-BLM democrats (including some high level pro-BLM politicians) incited numerous violent mobs over the course of 2020 to attack Seattle and Portland and usurp rule-of-law. But when it happened then the protests were "fiery but mostly peaceful" because "collateral…

There's a difference between attacking the Capitol and attacking a Pizza Hut. There's also a difference between a protestor throwing a firework at a courthouse and taking tactical gear and weapons with a couple hundred buddies into a legislature.

This equivalence between BLM and the mobbing of the Capitol is confusing to be because it's so obviously a false one.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#162

Post by jakearmitage » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

ravenstine wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the danger in going to such lengths to shut down disagreeable viewpoints. People say "make your own website", but that becomes a race to the bottom when we start politicizing server hosts and ISPs. When you completely shut people up, that doesn't mean they're gone, and now you don't know what they're thinking. Meanwhile you're actually tyrannical because a monopoly on information makes the mass 80% believe tha…

What other options do you have if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories? It's like trying to pull someone out of a cult like Scientology. Of course, attempt to engage to improve the situation and help someone obtain ground truth on their own from legitimate information sources, but when it's obviously hopeless insulate yoursel…

> if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories

Why do you want to go to great lengths and "educate" people on your point of view?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#163

Post by watwut » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #32

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

Interestingly, I have seen Twitter thread from months ago predicting exactly what happened. Like, literally long time ago.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#164

Post by mherkender » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

wmichelin wrote: post #40

Exuma wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite me tweets/descriptions of where he incited anything. He said something like "we will remember this day," and not long after condemned violence and supported law enforcement. Then the next day he condemned it again.

You're either being willfully ignorant, or arguing in bad faith. Calling for your people to all organize outside of the capitol building, claiming that the election was fraudulent without providing evidence, and then telling the active terrorists "we love you" should be sufficient evidence for you.

Don’t forget the calls for Total War and Trial by Combat from his son and lawyer.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#165

Post by caturopath » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

ddingus wrote: post #79

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

I do not even think it is morbid. 70 million people voted for Trump. Understanding them better is not a bad thing. Does not mean agreeing with them. And yes, same.

I don't think it's entirely fair to suggest that thedonald.win represents the 70 million Trump voters. It represents the attitudes of a few million of the weirdos, distorted further by roleplayers/trolls and international infiltrators.

Your average Trump voter is just a normal Republican. They voted for Trump because there was an R next to his name and defended him because he was on their team. The Democratic voters would be no different if the dems ran an equally ghastly candidate. (They obviously have not done so, and I am not making the claim that's random. I'm not saying 'both sides are the same' in this post.)

It might be useful to understand the thedonald.win crowd, but it ain't 70MM of your countrymen, Americans.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#166

Post by amyjess » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

For what it's worth, there were a few other bans yesterday:

* The top moderator of /r/conspiracy (just gonna quote the SRD thread: "At times this mod would spam over 100 pro-Trump posts a day, deleting their posts and spamming them over and over until they got the response they wanted, all while banning dozens of people per post. Anyone that openly challenged them or Trump would be immediacy banned.") [0]

* /r/GenerationNazbol (Nazbol = "Nazi Bolshevik" = racist tankies) [1]

* /r/PinkPillFeminism (ban evasion sub for /r/GenderCritical, which was banned in June) [2]

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/ksk6ur/top_...

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/kskd...

[2] https://old.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/ksl3...

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#167

Post by umvi » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

Exuma wrote: post #123

edmundsauto wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say these things as if they are not facts. BLM was protesting the injustice of systematic oppression that results in black people bejng murdered by police. 93% of the protests were entirely peaceful. In the other 7%, it is not clear if the violence was instigated by citizens or police. On the right, you have people who storm the US fucking Capitol building while they are confirming the next POTUS. They were tryin…

Aren't white people more likely to die by police? (seriously asking, I remember this data point but it's not in front of me).

Not quite. More white people die by far in total, but as a percentage of the demographic more non-white people die.

This is largely attributed to systemic racism, but also to poverty.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#168

Post by berkes » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #60

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

Yeah, this is a win. You can go to this guy's party at his house. And I don't have to worry about the guys at his party wandering into mine. And vice versa.

To stretch that analogy: all is fine, except for "this guy's" neighbors, they are in for a terrible night. And when the crowd at "this guy's party" is heated up and collectively starts harrassing people on the street, it gets even worse.

My point: Fine indeed, as long as they "stay there". But they won't. This goes for any online community: it has effects outside of that community.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#169

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #98

gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

> Which, it probably goes without saying, should scare the shit out of anyone who cares about the principles of the free Internet Big tech companies are largely left-leaning internally (which isn't surprising since California is the most left leaning state), so there is nothing to fear as long as you lean left yourself, (i.e. I guarantee you won't be censored for left-leaning speech any time soon).

We need a name for this, when USA conservatives are so sheltered from political thought that they can't tell the Left from the Centre-Right. Lots of leftist stuff has been censored in 2020, yet one repeatedly encounters this blissfully ignorant sentiment.

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#170

Post by gfodor » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

gbrown wrote: post #156

gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

> Which, it probably goes without saying, should scare the shit out of anyone who cares about the principles of the free Internet. I worry more about Google et. al. killing the free and open internet by creating centralized walled gardens. I worry more about legislative attacks on encryption, about the overzealous use of copyright law and the sorry state of intellectual property generally. If service providers want t…

I worry about all of that as well, but the problem with your last point is you are opening the door for network providers to be the arbiters of what is considered radicalization or not. They shouldn't be the decider of that, our laws should. If the FBI tells them to shut something down with a legal order, and our society has concluded it is just, so be it.

In the limit what you would get is a world where speech is basically under the influence of people who, for all intents and purposes, are operating infrastructure services the whole world runs on.

Those downvoting me I guess feel they trust the arbitrary CEOs of a few large corporations to never deem their actions online of worthy of being censored. Just because you want to live in that world doesn't mean I ought to accept it.