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Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

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Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#71

Post by actuator »

jariel wrote: post #69
actuator wrote: post #64

This is blowing up quite big now and I have managed to shift a lot of my friends to Signal now, I wonder if WhatsApp will go back on its decision. As we stand now even Signal is not safe because of the business model. I wonder what's the model on messaging apps that will work. I don't want the OS creators to own the messaging platforms as well by virtue of subsidising it through OS/hardware.

"As we stand now even Signal is not safe because of the business model." ? Ok, good, but you do realize that this is the most existential concern of them all? Why does FB so aggressively pursue personal data? For advertising. Because 'that's the business model'. Do you think that any entity would be in that position if say, people were willing to actually pay $3/month for what seems to be very obviously a highly usef…

Yeah, and that's the major issue with Signal/Telegram. They also have to pay the operational costs at the end of the day.

Apple's services can be ad free because they hide the cost in the cost of phone but that is extremely anti competitive.

A user on an iPhone will have a hard time rationalizing for Signal which says $3 per month when he looks at iMessage and that is free

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#72

Post by izacus »

xrisk wrote: post #62
izacus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…

Off-topic but does Signal support independent multi-device yet? Sorry I can’t find reliable information about it online!

Nope. You can't even use it on a tablet without owning a smartphone.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#73

Post by antirez »

That's funny. People use Whatsapp because outside US and Asia is the worldwide de facto standard for messaging. The new TOS does not state that Whatsapp is going to read your messages, actually even the non-techo-savvy population in Europe knows that Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption (they just know that "it cannot be intercepted"), so they use it for good reasons, and will continue to do so, because 99% of people don't give a shit about Facebook sealing your profile image and list of contacts or stuff like that. So it's not going to happen that there is a mass move outside of Whatsapp anytime soon. I also find very curious that people are concerned with that, but not with the fact that Facebook and Twitter can decide who can talk and who not, to te extend that one person can be the president of US but not writing his thoughts on social networks. You will hardly find somebody more against Trump than me, but that's not the point, the point is that is a lot more concerning that social network owners can decide what "free speech" is.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#74

Post by Merman_Mike »

elaus wrote: post #23
plibither8 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there any reason provided for the removal? I think it should in fact be essential in EU where they must follow. GDPR regulations and allow users to export their data easily.

There is a pending patent dispute with Blackberry and a German court ordered them to remove the chat export for German users.

For anyone curious, some googling found me this:

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/1014#issu...

> This feature is unavailable in Germany due to patent concerns:

> https://www.teltarif.de/whatsapp-chat-exportieren-iphone/new... (article in German)

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#75

Post by actuator »

antirez wrote: post #73

That's funny. People use Whatsapp because outside US and Asia is the worldwide de facto standard for messaging. The new TOS does not state that Whatsapp is going to read your messages, actually even the non-techo-savvy population in Europe knows that Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption (they just know that "it cannot be intercepted"), so they use it for good reasons, and will continue to do so, because 99% of people…

Just a correction antirez. WhatsApp is extremely big in Asia too, specially South Asia.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#76

Post by antirez »

actuator wrote: post #75
antirez wrote: post #73

That's funny. People use Whatsapp because outside US and Asia is the worldwide de facto standard for messaging. The new TOS does not state that Whatsapp is going to read your messages, actually even the non-techo-savvy population in Europe knows that Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption (they just know that "it cannot be intercepted"), so they use it for good reasons, and will continue to do so, because 99% of people…

Just a correction antirez. WhatsApp is extremely big in Asia too, specially South Asia.

Thanks! I was still thinking that Line and Wechat entirely dominated the Asian market.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#77

Post by vinay427 »

izacus wrote: post #48
cesarb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Signal already have backup? IIRC, when enabled it once per day saves all messages (encrypted with a backup key, which you have to write down somewhere) to /sdcard/Signal, and you can then use Syncthing or something similar to copy it to a new phone. If you put that /sdcard/Signal folder there before starting Signal for the first time, it'll ask to restore from that backup. WhatsApp has an identical local back…

It's a backup which demands that you WRITE down a very long numeric code, then manually copy files off and then hope your family doesn't lose all of it. It's a horrible user hostile process which isn't even implemented for iOS.

To be fair (to iOS users, not to Signal), the device transfer procedure on Android is somewhat more cumbersome as a result.

iOS gets the smooth new device-to-device direct transfer of the backup while Android users need to copy the encrypted blob (~2GB for me) to the new device and enter the encryption key. Admittedly, it does still allow for more flexibility than on iOS.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#78

Post by xrisk »

izacus wrote: post #72
xrisk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic but does Signal support independent multi-device yet? Sorry I can’t find reliable information about it online!

Nope. You can't even use it on a tablet without owning a smartphone.

So is the model similar to that of WhatsApp web? can you receive messages on the desktop app if your phone is switched off?

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#79

Post by upofadown »

izacus wrote: post #46
_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…

>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do.

Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#80

Post by Lutger »

izacus wrote: post #46
_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…

Really? I can't believe that.

I mean, in a sense, all software is just a vehicle for the data it processes, and the actual value lies in the data - not the software.

That data is chats for Signal. If they think that's worthless, even just the history of it, it means they don't really value their own application.

They are wrong.

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