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Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#931

Post by beagle3 »

coolspot wrote: post #828
beagle3 wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the Google/Facebook deal for "free backup of WhatsApp chats on your Google account" is exactly that. WhatsApp had perfectly usable encrypted backup - which took up space on your Google backup. And then, all of a sudden, it wasn't encrypted and didn't take up space. But you don't have access to it yourself - only Google does (and WhatsApp if it is recovering). This is a perfect way to provide all the data to…

Same situation with the iCloud backup on Apple iOS, AFAIK. WhatsApp backup in iCloud is not encrypted.

Is it user accessible at least? The Android backup is not.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#932

Post by Kliment »

fahadkhan wrote: post #345
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares that you and your crew are using a WhatsApp alternative, which is why there's no option for you to signal that you're using an alternative. This is for people who want to switch and are looking for suggestions, not for people who are trying to show off that they don't need to switch.

I find it interesting to that people don't use WhatsApp at all. Many posts here are claiming not using WhatsApp is impossible. Grandparent's experience demonstrate that it is.

I have a dedicated device for wechat. I recently put whatsapp on it (with a burner phone number) because my parents refuse to use anything else and would attempt to reach me via nearby people who happen to have whatsapp. I will likely remove it again rather when it forces me to "consent" to data sharing. I am extremely uncomfortable with whatsapp, much more so than wechat even.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#933

Post by saagarjha »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #614
kroltan wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not reasonable to demand interoperability for one of the main methods of communication in the entire world ? Forcing a specific standard is problematic, but it would be reasonable to ask any communication service to provide a fully documented and public API with features and access equal to the features and access of the official application. Random nerds make integrations to whatever application/protocol is in…

My problem is not demanding it, as users, it's enforcing it with laws. If users don't want that, they should be free not to have that.

The problem is that the users who couldn't care less drive the decision.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#934

Post by randomsearch »

selestify wrote: post #901
randomsearch wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s simpler. Boycotts don’t work at an individual level. I have been boycotting nestle for decades. Can’t say they’ve become less evil. That’s because the marginal effect is negligible for them and strongly negative for the individual (assuming you’re a fan of Kit Kat’s). Network effects amplify the marginal impact on the individual, because they lead to a monopoly with no true competition. Sure, you can lea…

What do you think the differences between modern boycotts and Rosa Parks bus boycott are? Why are modern ones so ineffective in comparison?

As sibling said, organisation was there, but also I think most people would feel very strongly about that issue, where here we are a minority.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#935

Post by x4j91 »

dstroot wrote: post #748
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

I ask this as a non-Whatsapp user. I have read the comments and I understand in some countries (Brazil, Netherlands, etc.) that Whatsapp is the main tool for person to person and person to business communications. What I can't figure out is why did it displace "plain SMS" or other tools. What drove the adoption? I'd love to hear more about that - was Whatsapp just the first mover?

Price! While my current phone plan includes "unlimited text messaging" ... this wasn't always the case. And even today, if I am roaming out of region, I get charged anywhere between 10 - 45 cents per text message. All here in Canada!

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#936

Post by BlueTemplar »

rglullis wrote: post #228

From the listed alternatives, only Matrix is the one that actually solves the issue of not having to trust our communications to any single monopolistic entity. You could add XMPP there as well, but it really doesn't matter. What does matter is for us to start pushing for openness and start evangelizing/helping others to adopt anything that puts us back in control of our communication. This is the one thing to fix, a…

What is not "nice" about Element ?

I've finally had the opportunity to try it during Christmas, when I finally managed to convince a friend to try it, and I was very pleasantly surprised to the degree of polish it had both on Ubuntu and Android !

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#937

Post by BlueTemplar »

Why isn't XMPP on the list ?!?

In fact I've dumped WhatsApp in favor of Conversations several years ago, when Facebook bought WhatsApp.

(I'm pretty sure that Facebook already helped themselves with all of WhatsApp's data back then, and this recent development is only ass-covering...)

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#938

Post by dancemethis »

LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #789
gcblkjaidfj wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp group messages are also not encrypted. I mean, it is, but with the server keys.

This isn't true at all. It uses Signal Protocol and is end-to-end encrypted.

It is proprietary, so there is no proof they didn't tamper with the code to appear to be working on clients. And chances are against the fragile link in the chain - the user.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#939

Post by ColinWright »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #937

Why isn't XMPP on the list ?!? In fact I've dumped WhatsApp in favor of Conversations several years ago, when Facebook bought WhatsApp. (I'm pretty sure that Facebook already helped themselves with all of WhatsApp's data back then, and this recent development is only ass-covering...)

XMPP isn't a chat app, it's a protocol. If you want a chat app then you need to list clients. Which client would you use?

And xxxx/XMPP isn't on the list because when I last looked (which was some time ago) everything was unusable for muggles, same with Matrix. Responses to this poll have convinced me that the landscape has changed, although most of the suggestions are still inappropriate for someone who just want to use something, without having to understand everything about the underlying protocols.

So, back to XMPP, or Matrix. Which client would you use/recommend?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#940

Post by skinkestek »

Quiark wrote: post #911
eitland wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because unlike with Facebook no one has been able to show a single example of Telegram abusing their customers even once. Let me use an example: Would you want to ride the absolutely bulletproof and soundproof taxi that has one disadvantage: that it is well known that the drivers make notes about who you are and who you visit and sell that data to companies like Cambridge Analytica? Or would you take another more ord…

That depends whether shooting at taxis on the street is a regular thing.

I think that was GPs exact point:

there are times when bulletproof is important and in such cases you absolutely should go for it.

But most of the time and most places it is just a giant waste.

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