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Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

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131–140 of 145 posts

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#131

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

Where would you say the Long Sun books fit into this? I've always been looking for the great book about generation ships, and I thought they might be it, but I just couldn't get into it. Are they worth revisiting now that I have a better idea what to expect?

I’m not the parent poster, and I favor Long Sun currently (see my sibling post). With that in mind, I think this is a great book that is not about generation ships exactly, but the Whorl (the ship) is deeply involved in the plot...eventually.

It starts out very small and slow: the entire first book takes place over the course of a single day and night. What you get, though, is a living city complete with petty squabbles, political intrigue, complex relationships, all from the perspective of people who have no idea that they are living inside of a man-made ship. They venerate the ancient technology they live with in a syncretistic religion that seems to have been created for that very purpose.

As the story progresses, themes of identity come into larger play, and you start to see more of just how far awry the ship’s journey has gone compared to the intentions of the builders. Like most Wolfe books, things are progressively revealed that reshape your understanding of what came before—though you have to pay close attention to catch many of them. You are never handed the exposition of “this is how the ship works, here’s all the cool tech behind it.” Instead, you have to extrapolate it from what the characters know and are willing to reveal.

It’s not fast-paced or action-packed; it’s very character-driven. I read that there are as many named characters as in War and Peace, over 500. I didn’t like the beginning the first time I read it; things get more interesting once Silk decides to rob Blood on the first night, and I think that’s when I started to warm up to it. So if you recall how far you got, and it was beyond that point, it may just not be to your liking. I’d go so far as to say that if you don’t want to read about Silk frying up tomatoes and feeling bad about not offering them to a workmate, you could try skipping ahead a hundred pages to see if it catches your interest then.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#132

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

I enjoyed Book of the New Sun but I’d say it’s quite a bit darker than most of the rest of the books you’ve named. Torture is a very central theme.

I think you missed the real theme, which is death and resurrection, a recurring pattern throughout the book.

While Severian is groomed to be a torturer, for most of the book his job (and Severian repeatedly emphasizes that it's just a job) is that of executioner, and he later holds the position of lictor for around a month. While Severian often recounts the procedures practiced in the guild tower, it's not really torture that he is concerned about.

The themes of death and resurrection, however, are central to the plot, together with the water motif as a symbol of cleansing, from the moment Severian nearly drowns in the river (and is rescued by an undine) to the destruction of Urth.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you say the Long Sun books fit into this? I've always been looking for the great book about generation ships, and I thought they might be it, but I just couldn't get into it. Are they worth revisiting now that I have a better idea what to expect?

I’m not the parent poster, and I favor Long Sun currently (see my sibling post). With that in mind, I think this is a great book that is not about generation ships exactly, but the Whorl (the ship) is deeply involved in the plot...eventually. It starts out very small and slow: the entire first book takes place over the course of a single day and night. What you get, though, is a living city complete with petty squabb…

Thanks a bunch for the insight! I don't think I made it very far in, but this has definitely peaked my interest. I very well may give it another shot, as it sounds like there's definitely a payoff for the investment.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter opinion: Hyperion books are recommended every time some of my favorite authors are mentioned (like Gene Wolfe and Peter Watts), but I found them very mediocre. Not as bad as Vernor Vinge books that are also always mentioned in similar contexts, but still quite meh.

Agreed, they do not hold a candle to Wolfe's prose. Though, many genre readers seem completely oblivious to prose quality and read purely for story. In the case of Hyperion everything is b-movie quality.

> Though, many genre readers seem completely oblivious to prose quality and read purely for story.

I find that I would read different books differently - some books I would read for the writing style or prose, and others purely for the story. I will literally skip 'prose-y?' sections to not waste time and get back to the story.

Though I gotta say, I found both the writing style and story great in Hyperion. One of the few books I actually went back and re-read sections of, while going through the first time.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#135
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't read Gene Wolfe (yet), but I can strongly recommend 'Hyperion Cantos' by Dan Simmons.

Strange that you feel the need to recommend a book by an author totally unrelated to this thread when you have not even read Wolfe. You have no reference as to what someone who likes Wolfe might enjoy.

How is a well-known science fiction author unrelated to a thread about science fiction where multiple other authors are mentioned? What's strange is your need to critique other people's commenting style.

For the record, I was looking for comparisons between the two from people who have read both. Hopefully that makes it a little less strange for you.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#136
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter opinion: Hyperion books are recommended every time some of my favorite authors are mentioned (like Gene Wolfe and Peter Watts), but I found them very mediocre. Not as bad as Vernor Vinge books that are also always mentioned in similar contexts, but still quite meh.

Haven't read Wolfe, but this thread makes me very curious. Another out-of-context reference: How does Malazan Book of the Fallen (though in high fantasy, by Steven Erikson) compare in terms of prose, complexity, being like literature, originality, etc.?

I'm no expert on prose/literature, but I really enjoyed Malazan Book of the Fallen for the story/adventure side of it. It has an enormous universe, many story lines, lots of good characters, etc.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#137

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

Hard disagree. I thought 'The Sorceror's House', as well as "an evil guest" and am currently thoroughly enjoying "a borrowed man". BOTS is his magnum opus, but I wouldn't call his latter work "lesser".

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#138
post #8

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

The final book even concludes with the narrator/protagonist suggesting the reader re-read the books to grasp their true meaning. IMO, two reads minimum are necessary.

And that sounds crazily presumptuous, but when I finished my exact thought was "I have to read that again."

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed with Le Guin, I love the Earthsea books, which are more than simple fantasy and have a beautiful spiritual and philosophical quality.

Agree with both, but in the case of Le Guin I clearly prefer the Hainish Cycle, with classics as The Left Hand of Darkness, The Disposesed or The Word for World is Forest

Have you read Lathe of Heaven? I don't love all of the Hainish Cycle books (they're all good, just not peak Le Guin good), but that book I would consider in my top 5 books of all time easily.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#140
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, they do not hold a candle to Wolfe's prose. Though, many genre readers seem completely oblivious to prose quality and read purely for story. In the case of Hyperion everything is b-movie quality.

> Though, many genre readers seem completely oblivious to prose quality and read purely for story. I find that I would read different books differently - some books I would read for the writing style or prose, and others purely for the story. I will literally skip 'prose-y?' sections to not waste time and get back to the story. Though I gotta say, I found both the writing style and story great in Hyperion. One of the…

Article about a specific sci-fi author: Every HN user just mentioning their favorite sci-fi book or author does not add any value. Especially when they say nothing interesting about named book and have not read the author in question.

Helpful comment, possibly adding value: In a comment I mentioned another author and why he is interesting. I have a reference for comparison because I have read Wolfe.

Same goes for any other topic.

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