No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees • Hacker News Board

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#171

Post by conductr » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

philmcp wrote: post #44

In years to come we will look down on the 5 day working week in the same way we currently do with 15hr factory shifts during the industrial revolution. It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? I'd be more than happy to work a job for 80% salary for 4 days per week... So much so, I'm about to launch a website lis…

Most want/need the full check. And the company wants full “value”/40 hours. So what you end up seeing more often is the 10x4 model or every other Friday off. It’s just a reallocation of time.

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#172

Post by ativzzz » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

shafyy wrote: post #159

ativzzz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious how being laid back in regards to work opens up opportunity from countries such as China that have some companies working 996 schedules (9-am - 9pm, 6 days a week) to overtake and make obsolete European global companies. I guess the only way EU can compete is protectionism, no?

Your underlying assumption is that companies where employees work more hours are more successful on the market place. I would say this is a deeply flawed assumption.

If two equally capable entities are competing, the one who puts in more time will almost always win. The Chinese may be lacking the (social and physical) infrastructure that the Europeans have a head start on for productivity, but they are catching up or have already caught up.

This probably applies less to big conglomerates who exist and will continue existing regardless of what happens (honestly most of their employees can just not show up and they will be fine), but more to technical innovation.

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#173

Post by namdnay » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #119

kortilla wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds ripe for a lawsuit or some really bad PR. Wait until the labor groups find out you punish the people desperate for more hours to make ends meet. It’s better to implement an hour cap or require approval for any overtime.

But this is an hour cap. The employer is saying, don't work more than 20 hours, or I'll lower your rate. It's better than a strict cap, since it does offer people to work more if they want. It would only be unfair if the employer would then instruct workers to work overtime; I assume that could be illegal (depending on where in the world this happens). But voluntary overtime is very different.

The risk is that the employer is saying “don’t declare more than 20 hours”, but everybody knows that you have to do more if you want to meet your targets / not be dropped

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#174

Post by tothrowaway » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

jacobsenscott wrote: post #76

benmanns wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also fully deductible work-related expenses, including health insurance, and ability to fully fund a solo 401k.

Are you sure health insurance is deductible? There was a time it wasn't. Either way that's peanuts compared to a benefit that covers most of your premium. Fully fund a solo 401k is also nothing special compared to a proper matching 401k. This is just a freelancing gig, and not "working at gumroad".

Health insurance premiums are deductible for self-employed people (and 2%+ S-corp shareholders): https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en_US_2019_publink1000...

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#175

Post by jvns » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

One thing I find a bit strange about this (as a Gumroad user) is that Gumroad employees don't seem to be granted @gumroad.com email addresses -- when I've needed to email their engineering staff or marketing staff I often get replies from someone's personal email address.

The fact that employees are using their personal email address to do Gumroad business makes me feel a bit uncertain about how securely my information / my customers' information is being stored.

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#176

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #137

bumby wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, you have a process that you follow in your own work though? There are formal codified processes and there are informal tribal ones. Often when I hear people have disdain for processes, it’s usually they don’t like someone else’s process. Unfortunately, standardized processes tend to become more necessary as systems get more complicated in order to ensure an operation becomes fault tolerant by not being relian…

> Surely, you have a process that you follow in your own work though? Personally, no. I have spent enough time at enough organizations to simply adapt to whatever they do. But if I want to write some code I just do that. I might toss in testing or whatever for bigger projects, but it’s all ad hock. Processes are about repeatability, but for personal projects you can customize based on more specific goals. If I want s…

[deleted]

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#177

Post by philmcp » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #166

philmcp wrote: post #44

In years to come we will look down on the 5 day working week in the same way we currently do with 15hr factory shifts during the industrial revolution. It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? I'd be more than happy to work a job for 80% salary for 4 days per week... So much so, I'm about to launch a website lis…

> why is there basically no variation on this model? I'd be more than happy to work a job for 80% salary for 4 days per week So part time? This is pretty normal in nearly every company I’ve worked in, lots of people take it to spend more time with young kids

For all the companies I've worked at, the developers are all full-time so I envy your industry / location if part-time is common.

More generally though, I feel employees almost need an "excuse" to work part time (i.e. some reason such as childcare). I wish for a time when a significant % of developer jobs are advertised as near-full time and that I'm not stereotyped as lazy for applying to them. There's more to life than reviewing pull requests...

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#178

Post by 2ion » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

gricardo99 wrote: post #162

But we can compete–and win–on flexibility. And then the following part describes: In 2020, Sid left Gumroad to start his own creator economy company, Circle, together with former Gumroad coworker Rudy Santino I fail to see this as any competitive advantage since Gumroad's "employment" approach literally incubated a competitor.

The owner of Gumroad is already rich, so competition doesn't matter so much anymore.

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#179

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

DVassallo wrote: post #77

_2d30 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you willing to provide any additional clarity on "very competitive rates as contractors"? I understand if not but would be useful to help some of us externally think about this model.

I’m making $10K/mo for a quarter-time PM role at Gumroad (so about $250/hr).

[deleted]

Re: No meetings, no deadlines, no full-time employees

#180

Post by philmcp » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

spaetzleesser wrote: post #135

philmcp wrote: post #44

In years to come we will look down on the 5 day working week in the same way we currently do with 15hr factory shifts during the industrial revolution. It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? I'd be more than happy to work a job for 80% salary for 4 days per week... So much so, I'm about to launch a website lis…

Totally agree. Due to COVID most of my company worked only 4 days per week last year. The improvement in quality of life was amazing and productivity didn’t drop noticeably. There was a time when 6 days per week were normal. People thought the world would go under if people worked only 5 days but things were ok. The same will happen with 4 day weeks. Once people get used to it it will be hard to imagine working more.

Exactly - the productivity boost employees gain from not being burned out, combined with a slightly lower wage bill. I see it as a win / win for both parties tbh.