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Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

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Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#621

Post by djsumdog »

king_magic wrote: post #500
djsumdog wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Trump - and his supporters - are the "they". They are the monsters here. They are the ones invading capitols. They are the ones emboldening white supremacists, racists and fascists. They are the one demanding to overturn the legitimate outcome of a democratic election. It's an insult to the millions and millions who died during WWII to corrupt the message behind this famous poem/statement and insinuate that Trump and…

> Trump - and his supporters - are the "they"

70 million people. All of them are fascists?

I'm pretty sure people in Germany though they were stopping the fascists by supporting the Nazis. You have no idea who the "they" is until it's too late.

That's why the freedom of speech covers everybody. In America, we are not afraid of ideas. My dad survived a civil war, got his degree and immigrated here legally to be a part of that America. It's the America I grew up in, and that America is slowly falling from the grips of rationality and embracing real true fascism.

You think Trump was fascist? Just wait for the next four years. You are about to see freedoms and civil rights disappear like never before.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#622

Post by sleepysysadmin »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #440
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason was because he was POTUS. Otherwise he would have been removed long ago. The moment he wasn't potus anymore he was to be removed from these platforms. The consequence of this however will be political division. If you thought the political division was bad now because of 'echo chambers'. Wait until the camps are no longer talking because they arent on the same platforms.

No, the effect is the opposite. First of all, they haven't been talking to each other in a constructive way on these platforms anyway, they merely exchange hateful messages. There is no dialogue between those sides on social media, because social media are generally not conducive to reasonable and rational discussion (with exceptions like HN, of course, where there is appropriate moderation). Second, pushing radicals…

>No, the effect is the opposite. First of all, they haven't been talking to each other in a constructive way on these platforms anyway, they merely exchange hateful messages.

So nothing lost?

>Second, pushing radicals out of mainstream platforms is a good thing because they will go to many different places, break up into smaller fractions, and therefore not be able to reach as many people at once.

The thing about banning people on facebook, twitter, reddit, etc. You just create a new account. Nobody has gone anywhere. When there is a push for different platform like parler, then the migration occurs and there won't be cells. thedonald.win for example just as popular as thedonald was. There's no splintering. Though I can bet you within the next 2 weeks those sites will be taken down.

>The division and reality-denial we see today is the result of small minorities reaching to large audiences and looking much larger than they are, thereby allowing radical and violent positions to become seemingly more socially acceptable.

To be clear, the political division is not on the republican side. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d...

The political divide is on the democrat side. More specifically... it was just the democrats. That's not the case anymore. The republicans just moved to the right increasing the divide.

>It's perfectly fine if people who want to storm the Capitol (or behead Fauci, etc.) get to talk in their own, small little echo chambers. They do that already. Law enforcement is used to infiltrating closed circles and should know how to deal with those who become terrorists.

That's the thing with reality. Those who arent involved in certain subjects can see it objectively. I'm not american nor am I there.

I have never seen the politics so divided in the usa. It WAS the democrats, It's now both. The political divide has never been so bad.

What are the consequences?

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#623

Post by munificent »

dionian wrote: post #556
technofiend wrote: post #241

I know Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and all the rest don't count as broadcast media but I feel like we got here in part because the 1987 elimination of FCC's fairness doctrine slowly allowed a shift in how we communicate with each other. We went from specious claims and conspiracy theories being the subject matter of newsletters to their public broadcast to millions via talk radio ~and Fox News~, thus allowin…

Fox (however detestable you may find it) was created as an alternative to the corporate media hegemony on thought, I fear you have it backwards.

Fox News was created to have enough control over media to prevent a Nixon-like event ever happening to the GOP again.

https://www.businessinsider.com/roger-ailes-blueprint-fox-ne...

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#624

Post by wrsh07 »

youeseh wrote: post #528
technofiend wrote: post #241

I know Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and all the rest don't count as broadcast media but I feel like we got here in part because the 1987 elimination of FCC's fairness doctrine slowly allowed a shift in how we communicate with each other. We went from specious claims and conspiracy theories being the subject matter of newsletters to their public broadcast to millions via talk radio ~and Fox News~, thus allowin…

Traditional TV and Print News Media gets the most eyeballs when they are controversial. Fox, CNN, MSNBC all do everything they can to coddle their specific segment. They phrase and comment on the news in a way that'll either excite their segment when they think it'll benefit and soften the blow whenever they think it'll hurt. And no, none of them appeal to a general audience. The ads that each network displays will t…

I tend to think that the business model of a cable news room is pretty fundamentally broken.

Insofar as you value investigative journalism or pieces with some depth, you will be disappointed by organizations that host ESPN style shout fests, but they're produced for exactly the same reasons.

It's cheap to make garbage filler content. When you see that all of the channels are deeply flawed, it's because they're incentivized to be flawed in exactly the way that they are.

Curiously, John Oliver (say what you will about his biases) has found a way to fund real investigative journalism. This marks an interesting counterpoint to the 24 hour news room which extends what comedy central (daily show etc) had begun

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#625

Post by elgfare »

molbioguy wrote: post #467

The statements by Facebook and others pushing moral justifications around Facebook's censorship fail to entertain the possibility that even morality is subjective and relative. Facebook makes its decisions based on its own goals and preferences and morals. Facebook has established itself unfairly as a moral arbiter on a platform that is so widely used that is treated like a public utility. The people who currently ag…

Yes, but in a lot of ways, the laws of society are a sufficiently objective moral basis, since those are the rules we chose for ourselves. Undermining those is just bad in so many ways.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#626

Post by donohoe »

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #600
neogodless wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a phrase "Talking out of both sides of your mouth." He said what he believed the urging of politicans, media and oppositional citizens wanted by saying "go home" while continuing to say what his base wanted to hear - "we won in a landslide and it was stolen." Each side could choose to only hear what they want, or recognize it for the manipulation it is. We know what his followers will do - hear what they want…

And when politicians call each other Nazis, or when Joe Biden claimed that Mitt Romney wanted to re-enslave black people? Seems like you're only going to apply your "inciting violence" claim to one side. I watched cities burn over the summer and intense levels of violence... And yet no one on the left trotted out speech bans and "incitement to violence" claims. It's obvious you're selectively targeting enforcement of…

Not the same thing. Stop trying to make the two sound the same.

It all started when Mr. Biden, addressing a predominantly African American crowd, quoted Mr. Romney as saying in his first 100 days as president that "he's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules -- unchain Wall Street." Then the vice president added with a grin: "They're going to put y'all back in chains!"

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#627

Post by nchi3 »

djsumdog wrote: post #477
king_magic wrote: post #45

Good. This was absolutely the right move from Facebook. Finally.

[flagged]

How is this relevant in the least? They haven't "come for" anyone because of an opinion or race, but for actions.

It's more like "First they came for the murderers".

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#628

Post by olivermarks »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #293
technofiend wrote: post #241

I know Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and all the rest don't count as broadcast media but I feel like we got here in part because the 1987 elimination of FCC's fairness doctrine slowly allowed a shift in how we communicate with each other. We went from specious claims and conspiracy theories being the subject matter of newsletters to their public broadcast to millions via talk radio ~and Fox News~, thus allowin…

Matt Taibbi talks about all this in his book Hate Inc. The 24/7 news networks needed new stuff to sell since the USSR was out. Turns out just general outrage at every little thing works good.

I rate everything Taibbi writes and says very highly, his substack is very of the moment, informed and perceptive.

Regarding Facebook indefinitely suspending Trump, #bigTech can modulate exposure of politicians and aspects of their personalities and platform positions highly effectively - suppressing and amplifying for unknown 'fairness doctrines' of their own making.

An example is Gabbard's response to Clinton on Twitter, whose 'likes' are modulated down to circa 250k regularly. You can 'like' it dozens of times but each time you return your 'like' has usually been removed.

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1185289626409406464

The bigger point regardless of whether you approve of Gabbard or Clinton - #bigTech is able to amplify or sideline anyone as the Trump blackballing illustrates. This is alarmingly like the anti communist witch hunts and blackballing in the 1950's

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#629

Post by throwaways885 »

oivey wrote: post #601
starik36 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be fair when you only blame Fox for fact-free content when the same fact-free content(just inverted) is peddled by all the other mass media outlets. They just cater to a different bubble.

That’s a pretty false equivalence. To cite the most recently example, Fox repeatedly propagating Trump’s lies about the election has no analog on the left.

What about Trump/Russia collusion?

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#630

Post by esoterica »

molbioguy wrote: post #467

The statements by Facebook and others pushing moral justifications around Facebook's censorship fail to entertain the possibility that even morality is subjective and relative. Facebook makes its decisions based on its own goals and preferences and morals. Facebook has established itself unfairly as a moral arbiter on a platform that is so widely used that is treated like a public utility. The people who currently ag…

It's not a public utility and being widely used does not make it one. Lots of people eat at McDonald's and get coffee from Starbucks, that does not make McDonald's or Starbucks a public utility.
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