Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#601

Post by oivey » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #536

technofiend wrote: post #241

I know Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and all the rest don't count as broadcast media but I feel like we got here in part because the 1987 elimination of FCC's fairness doctrine slowly allowed a shift in how we communicate with each other. We went from specious claims and conspiracy theories being the subject matter of newsletters to their public broadcast to millions via talk radio ~and Fox News~, thus allowin…

You can't be fair when you only blame Fox for fact-free content when the same fact-free content(just inverted) is peddled by all the other mass media outlets. They just cater to a different bubble.

That’s a pretty false equivalence. To cite the most recently example, Fox repeatedly propagating Trump’s lies about the election has no analog on the left.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#602

Post by dionian » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #518

disown wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more interesting is the blatant support of zuckerburg and facebook here. Of all places, you'd think HN would support free speech, but yesterday, you got downvote brigaded for mentioning that facebook and tech companies shouldn't be our censors. The logic was "we must protect democracy by having zuckerburg censor an elected government official". One moment it's facebook is evil. The next moment, facebook and zuck…

Has it not occurred to you that, maybe, we should judge people for their actions ? Rather than deciding upon an immutable set of Good People and Bad People, we should judge good and bad deeds?

If only Facebook would act that way towards Trump. He called for the people to leave the Capitol.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#603

Post by jmull » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

ndjdjxjsjdjdhd wrote: post #130

fullshark wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See for yourself: https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/trump-releases-statement-telli... Someone described this video as taking a log off the fire while simultaneously pouring gasoline which I think is a fair characterization.

So basically you are saying: - Asking for peace isn’t enough - And. He really needs to stop believing his claim of fraud? Wild. Am I crazy or is everyone else right now?

You're misunderstanding.

What he should have done was strongly condemn the violence and call for the people to go home immediately and peacefully.

And nothing else. With no softening weasel words.

He would be able to keep believing his claims of election fraud uninterrupted. And continue to pursuing them, just after the violent insurrection was diffused, not during it.

It's important to note that the insurrection was any least partially incited by his claims of election fraud, so repeating them in that context was extremely dangerous.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#604

Post by dstola » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

apocalypstyx wrote: post #542

dstola wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is any reason to exaggerate. People have a will and a right to protest against their perceived injustice at a state or federal level. A coup also usually involves the military and a taking of government by force, neither of which happened yesterday. If this were a coup then the BLM "protests" over the summer were also a coup, and they were causing significantly more damage to small business with d…

When did BLM protestors force their way into a capital building with the express goal of overturning the results of an election?

The Capitol was the focal point of the protest due to the location and in this case the perceived injustice of the election. When almost half the voting population thinks there is something wrong with the election, maybe its time to listen to those people. If anything I think the hivemind and unemployed young people showing frustration was the spark that ignited what happened yesterday.

I am not trying to justify it as good or bad, but it was not a coup by a long shot and you cant haphazardly label it as such.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#605

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #543

ls612 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason the fairness doctrine could even plausibly exist constitutionally was because radio and tv were broadcast media using a public good (spectrum). Cable TV, newspapers were not affected and the internet likely wouldn’t have been affected either.

What's the reasoning for the distinction? How is spectrum over the air a public good but spectrum over wires not?

The broadcast spectrum is considered a limited-supply public property, so the FCC (or other national equivalents) issues licenses allowing organizations (or standards) to use parts of it.

Wires are not limited supply in any meaningful sense (just install more), and in many parts of the world, not even public property.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#606

Post by zzleeper » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

A lot of people over here are very pro-trump, and just use this as a way to defend him.

It's the same reason why anything non-tech gets flagged nowadays until dang removes protects the threads: they don't want to see news attacking their "Dear Leader", so they flag it as non-relevant. If it was a story about a democrat doing something wrong, I'm pretty sure they won't get flagged as quickly.

Dang: would be REALLY interesting to compare who is flagging with their comments in these and other threads.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#607

Post by chasd00 » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #581

chasd00 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

coup is a bit much. this happens from time to time at the state level, protesters push their way into chambers. they should have just been arrested, the police dropped the ball.

It’s a putsch because the intent was to disrupt or prevent the certification of the next president, literally the formal approval of the transfer of power. This is not a bunch of yahoos upset with a governor about coronavirus restrictions.

No, this happens at the state level from time to time. There were protesters who broke in to state chambers to disrupt a vote on abortion rights iirc. There's also been the same on gun rights votes too. I can't find a link because any search for "protest" turns up yesterday's events.

Everyone wants to use words like coup or insurrection as outrage bait and more clicks and views. It denigrates the plight of people who have actually lived through the real version of those events. As a US citizen, it's embarrassing actually.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#608

Post by dionian » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

TheJazi13 wrote: post #539

disown wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more interesting is the blatant support of zuckerburg and facebook here. Of all places, you'd think HN would support free speech, but yesterday, you got downvote brigaded for mentioning that facebook and tech companies shouldn't be our censors. The logic was "we must protect democracy by having zuckerburg censor an elected government official". One moment it's facebook is evil. The next moment, facebook and zuck…

You can do the right thing every now and then while still being evil. It’s been obvious for a long time how stuffed with lies, hate and abuse the President’s social media account have been.

For example? Was it his tweets yesterday saying to comply with the police and leave the Capitol? can we be a bit more substantive?

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#609

Post by spanktheuser » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

noctua wrote: post #453

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

> the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech. Many people, both anarchists and non-anarchists, would strongly disagree with that statement. And not all of those people are uneducated edgelords whose main argument is that it's a slippery slope.

I don’t think you should be speaking for anarchists unless you are one yourself & embedded in that community. As a non-anarchist who is sometimes in coalition with them on certain issues I have a very different impression of their view on this matter. I don’t think you can claim their support for your slippery slope / free speech absolutist position.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#610

Post by merpnderp » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #558

protonimitate wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "slippery slope" / "free speech" arguments are boring, and come into play almost anytime Facebook gets mentioned on HN. "Slippery slope" is also most commonly a fallacy , which a lot of people seem to ignore. > the fallacy of arguing that a certain course of action is undesirable or that a certain proposition is implausible because it leads to an undesirable or implausible conclusion via a series of tenuously con…

Slippery slope arguments only retain validity of each link in the chain is demonstrably probably. Even then, for something like resisting dangerous speech, what does the slope matter? If the original thing is good to do, don't worry about the slippery slope, just make the right decision. Then of it goes to far and you're on the edge of a slope, that's where you fight. If guidelines about violent speech are abused, th…

Because it is so easy to stop the government from doing absurd things once it gets the power to do them? Like kicking in a door guns ablazing because someone might have smelled weed? Yeah, we stopped that the first time it happened, didn't we...