Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 972 posts

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#681

Post by ignoramous »

scaladev wrote: post #574
ignoramous wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just see messages, but show you ads as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25520200 Telegram's a down-right bad IM experience compared to WhatsApp despite Facebook's forced integration: You see ads and the chats aren't encrypted.

>bad IM experience compared to WhatsApp I'd say forcing me to type on a shitty tiny on-screen keyboard (or use a _browser_ while still keeping the network on my phone running) is such a terrible experience that literally everything else wins in comparison to this.

> ...literally everything else wins in comparison to this.

I think you do realise that WhatsApp uses E2E and there's no way to do it any more securely unless the messages always go through your phone; and so, I believe you have already made a choice to use insecure services because "convenience", but in the context of current discussion (privacy and security), WhatsApp comes out superior despite Facebook's involvement. And that's saying something.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#682

Post by dkarl »

raziel2p wrote: post #339
incrudible wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, b…

Eh, it's not like "the nerds" can build a better product in terms of UX anyway, and definitely can't market it better. Besides, who says "the nerds" are trustworthy anyway? They keep arguing among each other about which operating system or programming language is best, and why should we take their advice when software security vulnerabilities keep being discovered? Not disagreeing with your point - it's become too ea…

"The nerds" tend to think logically and extrapolate without regard for reasonableness, precedent, or social norms. That makes us pretty bad at a lot of things (and we blow a lot of our credibility that way) but, it turns out, pretty good at predicting how corporations will abuse technology.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#685

Post by _vvhw »

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Not really. These things go slow at first and then all of a sudden. I think Facebook have underestimated the resilience of their network effect to an ultimatum like this. Integrity is a force multiplier, and when you set your integrity to zero it doesn't take long before the rest of your asset is also zero. Anything times zero is zero. Even WhatsApp. How the mighty fall.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#686

Post by ColinWright »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #679
ColinWright wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would tell me that you would switch to use none, or that you currently don't use anything, or that you wouldn't switch from your current system, but it doesn't give me any advice to pass on to my friends, who do use WhatsApp, want not to use WhatsApp, and need to use something. So providing those options wouldn't help me, although it's otherwise interesting to note that you'd vote "none".

I think you can use those options as advice to your friends. The advice would be to "not switch" or "use nothing". Both of those are valid advice and "none" is the advice I'm giving friends and relatives from now on.

Neither "Not Switching" nor "Use None" are viable options, which is why they aren't included. I appreciate that they are the advice you would give, but it would be unhelpful for them. They need something, and it needs not to be WhatsApp. That's why I didn't include those as options in the poll.

But I appreciate (and am sympathetic towards) your stance.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#687

Post by jimkleiber »

randomsearch wrote: post #361
incrudible wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, b…

I think it’s simpler. Boycotts don’t work at an individual level. I have been boycotting nestle for decades. Can’t say they’ve become less evil. That’s because the marginal effect is negligible for them and strongly negative for the individual (assuming you’re a fan of Kit Kat’s). Network effects amplify the marginal impact on the individual, because they lead to a monopoly with no true competition. Sure, you can lea…

When employees want to have more say over their working conditions, they organize. If users want to have more say over the product conditions, is there an opportunity to organize as wel?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#688

Post by dartharva »

jbotz wrote: post #283
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…

Same in India. It is indeed a critical social infrastructure here, if one is "texting" someone it is inherently assumed it would be through WhatsApp. And yes, schools, offices and even the Police use it too.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#689

Post by marc_io »

speeder wrote: post #555
itsnot2020 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I originally signed-up to WhatsApp was because of spending more and more time in Brazil and realising how ingrained in society it is. Even though a lot of my friends and family there have iPhones, none use iMessage.

iMessage is just too risky. Reason is that it is also an interface for SMS, and SMS in Brazil is obscenely crazy expensive, some operators might charge 1 BRL per message or stuff like that (for context: 1 BRL is the price of a cup of coffee or of a bottle of water), using iMessage and having it to switch to SMS without you noticing can rack bills that are easily bigger than your wages.

It's not only expensive, SMS is dangerous too! There is huge amount of fraud around SMS and the “SIM swap” technique to clone credit cards and cause all kinds of havoc, some of them with the participation of corrupted employees from telecom companies.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#690

Post by wussboy »

Lazare wrote: post #56

Telegram is a great IM experience . The client is good, feature set is good, the stickers are amusing (if you're into that kind of thing), the feature set is complete and everything is polished. Telegram is, I think, going to be one of the easier sells if you're trying to convince non-technical users to switch from WhatsApp or FB Messenger. The privacy, security, and governance story is not great though. If you care…

Telegram is my go-to because it has a browser client and a native Windows Desktop client.
Post reply on HN