Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#551

Post by stouset » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

Not only is Trump shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater, but he’s been inviting crowds of people to theaters virtually for the sole purpose of doing so.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#552

Post by ttesttom » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

anonunivgrad wrote: post #366

gpm wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite disagree with this, but I'm willing to defend those who do because a slightly different weighting in my priorities would make my disagree. Inciting violence should be punished by the law , not by Facebook. For regular people it makes sense to outsource some of this to Facebook, to minimize the load on the legal system. POTUS however is one very high profile person. His statements are not being missed by…

Trump did not incite violence. If anything, the media this summer was much more involved in inciting and fueling the BLM riots.

Even Bill Barr, Trumps former AG, said Trump incited a mob.

>“Orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable. The president’s conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters.”

https://twitter.com/GingerGibson/status/1347213610406313986?...

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#553

Post by throwawaysea » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

mrlala wrote: post #398

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

Why does Facebook owe anyone a voice? If you want a 'voice' then the GOVERNMENT should make a social media platform in which NO ONE at all can be censured. Because your silly free speech argument doesn't have anything to do with private companies, although you already knew that, but conveniently ignore it. If Trump decides to start posting on HN, does HN owe him a voice? You are the one making slippery slope argument…

The problem is that companies like Facebook and Twitter are already operating like the public town square. They are so big that they have greater influence and reach than virtually all countries, in a product space that is highly dependent on network effects. They are, for all intents and purposes, a public utility. And they should be held accordingly to the standards - namely that they cannot censor content, in support of free speech principles.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#554

Post by colorboy » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

Isn't it what China does Censoring those who create violent atmosphere

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#555

Post by null0ranje » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #519

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

The argument about whether it's legal to yell fire in. a theater isn't even relevant because it's the theater who's kicking you out and banning you, not the government. Of course they have the right to do that, regardless of your interpretation of the first amendment.

The argument is not whether or not the theater owner can kick you out. The argument is whether the government can also criminalize the behavior.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#556

Post by dionian » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

technofiend wrote: post #241

I know Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and all the rest don't count as broadcast media but I feel like we got here in part because the 1987 elimination of FCC's fairness doctrine slowly allowed a shift in how we communicate with each other. We went from specious claims and conspiracy theories being the subject matter of newsletters to their public broadcast to millions via talk radio ~and Fox News~, thus allowin…

Fox (however detestable you may find it) was created as an alternative to the corporate media hegemony on thought, I fear you have it backwards.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#557

Post by suyash » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

Yes, people are not seeing the big precedent being set here, If US President's voice is being shut down, one can only imagine how powerful the biased censorship on social media platforms is. We either need to find/create alternate platforms or set strict rules for everyone and not at the whims/moods of these CEO's.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#558

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

protonimitate wrote: post #468

th0ma5 wrote: post #231

All of these HN comments are defending shouting "Fire!" falsely in a theater under the guise of it being a slippery slope before all speech is lost. I have lost a lot of respect for these slippery slope arguments because they are easy to make and ignore the obvious problem which is that some speech shouldn't be tolerated... Especially intolerant or harmful speech.

The "slippery slope" / "free speech" arguments are boring, and come into play almost anytime Facebook gets mentioned on HN. "Slippery slope" is also most commonly a fallacy , which a lot of people seem to ignore. > the fallacy of arguing that a certain course of action is undesirable or that a certain proposition is implausible because it leads to an undesirable or implausible conclusion via a series of tenuously con…

Slippery slope arguments only retain validity of each link in the chain is demonstrably probably.

Even then, for something like resisting dangerous speech, what does the slope matter? If the original thing is good to do, don't worry about the slippery slope, just make the right decision. Then of it goes to far and you're on the edge of a slope, that's where you fight.

If guidelines about violent speech are abused, then fight to fix it. Don't avoid the correct decision just because doing it right will be hard work.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#559

Post by jeffbee » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

NickGott wrote: post #524

jccalhoun wrote: post #132

When people say anonymity online is bad and that having people use their real names would make people more polite, I point them to facebook comments.

People are incredibly mean and nasty to each other on nextdoor in my neighborhood, and they literally live down the street from one another. You're completely right, it's not anonymity that causes people to act like this, it's the fact that we as humans can't perceive text on a screen as another human being that activates the empathy center in our brains. Coronavirus has made this 100X worse as people are losing thei…

People on Nextdoor think their neighbors are all like them and wrongly assume it's a safe space for airing out their worst thoughts. Mine is completely full of naked racism, calls for murdering specific people, etc. There doesn't seem to be a way to fix it because the "leader", basically the moderator, of my Nextdoor is the worst of them.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#560

Post by Kapura » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

tetrometal wrote: post #408

Kapura wrote: post #315

This is pathetic, and I would be embarrassed to be a Facebook employee after what has transpired over the past 5 years. Extremely too little too late. The damage has already been done, and done, and done. Over and over again. Journalism is a husk of what it was before Facebook's algorithms became the primary way many consume news. Engagement as the key performance metric has damaged the human project. This company ca…

"This company cannot be brought to heel quickly enough." That you can say that and not think of yourself as authoritarian is the reason the US is so divided right now.

A man with a gun walks down a street. He shoots a woman in the leg. He keeps walking. He shoots at another man across the street. Somebody runs up from behind and tackles the man with the gun.

tetrometal logs in to say "woah, stop being so authoritarian! can't you see you're tearing us apart?"