Poll: Switching from WhatsApp • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#511

Post by rglullis » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

chrismatheson wrote: post #397

rglullis wrote: post #228

From the listed alternatives, only Matrix is the one that actually solves the issue of not having to trust our communications to any single monopolistic entity. You could add XMPP there as well, but it really doesn't matter. What does matter is for us to start pushing for openness and start evangelizing/helping others to adopt anything that puts us back in control of our communication. This is the one thing to fix, a…

will https://communick.com run / configure the various bridges? setting up my own home server for matrix with bridges to existing services (inc WhatsApp) has been on my list for a while. Seems like a nice way to try and migrate slowly away from other services, and if it works well I can show my friends in a sort of like "look this is how ive done it"

The only concern I have with bridges is that I am not so sure how this affects my biggest promise - user privacy. But I am experimenting with the bridges on personal server and depending on how it goes I might have it as a separate product/offering - away from Communick.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#512

Post by eitland » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

nebulous1 wrote: post #490

eitland wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a reminder, Telegram groups are not encrypted at all, and 1:1 chats are not encrypted by default This isn't just misleading but actually plain wrong. Unless you want to tell my your internet banking is unencrypted too ;-) Edit: as seen downthread there a number of ways to make this more or less correct, but as it stand, and particularly with the "at all" at the end of one of the claims it is just plain wrong. >…

Although they're client/server encrypted, I think contextually it was obvious that the person was talking about end-to-end encryption. "Encrypted chat" means end-to-end encrypted, if it's used to mean client/server encrypted then that's misleading.

Encryped chat might mean E2E-encrypted yes, but even then why not add those four extra letters "E2E-" and make it obvious?

Besides, here is what I replied to:

> As a reminder, Telegram groups are not encrypted at all[...]

(emphasis mine)

This is very possible to misunderstand for someone who isn't aware and the result might easily be that they stay in their abusive relationship with WhatsApp because of such FUD.

As can probably be seen from my comment history I'm no stranger to criticizing Telegram but we should stick to the facts.

Facts matter.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#513

Post by juniperplant » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #250

captainmuon wrote: post #49

Is Matrix a good alternative to Signal? I'm currently using Signal, but I'm not entirely satisfied. My major issues are that I don't like their stance on a couple of issues: third party clients are not allowed, mobile first and desktop is only synced, phone number required, and distribution only over the app stores. Also we frequently get "encryption errors" and everybody ignores them, this is worse than with SSH key…

> Is Matrix a good alternative to Signal? To a certain degree I'd say this is apples vs oranges. Before you shoot me down, let me explain. The reason I say that is because of the core focus of the different platforms. Signal's priority-one use-case is clearly person-to-person IM and communication. The UI, setup-process and entire architecture is optimized for this one use-case, with all other use-cases being shoehorn…

As far as I know, the Matrix protocol shouldn't be limiting when it comes to one-to-one chats.

There are already Matrix mobile clients focusing on this use case, aiming at being a WhatsApp replacement. Examples are: Ditto Chat[1], Nio[2], and FluffyChat[3].

Before trying to solve the network-effect issue (i.e. all people using WhatsApp), we should make one of the mentioned clients at least as good as WhatsApp, or else users won't switch.

[1] https://dittochat.org

[2] https://nio.chat

[3] https://fluffychat.im

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#514

Post by lucideer » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

Unklejoe wrote: post #376

enumjorge wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but I can’t encourage my social circle to move to an alternative that isn’t polished and has a great user experience for non-technical users. It’s a non starter. Even if I did, the moment they start using it and a) it’s confusing b) most of their circle is using something else, they’ll a) drop it b) ignore my future suggestions :). Take Matrix for example. I had heard of it but hadn’t really looked…

> There’s no official client For all intents and purposes, Element is the official client. It used to be called Riot, but was recently renamed. Honestly, I think they should have just called it "Matrix". I'm guessing they didn't do that because they want to promote the concept of multiple clients without any single "official" client, but it would really simplify things. As of now, I have to tell people "Use Matrix, b…

> As of now, I have to tell people "Use Matrix, but you need this app called Element to get on to it". It's confusing for a lot of people.

It is but I've found the email analogy helpful: prefixing your explanation with "it's like email" tends to open even non-technical people's mind to the idea of multiple clients + a unified protocol.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#515

Post by will_gottschalk » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

Snapchat

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#516

Post by deeblering4 » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Why is this the top voted comment?

Leaving WhatsApp is nothing at all like cutting off your internet connection.

It is just one out of literally dozens of available text messaging apps, and it is owned by one of the least ethical companies that exists today.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#517

Post by josteink » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #422

josteink wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Matrix a good alternative to Signal? To a certain degree I'd say this is apples vs oranges. Before you shoot me down, let me explain. The reason I say that is because of the core focus of the different platforms. Signal's priority-one use-case is clearly person-to-person IM and communication. The UI, setup-process and entire architecture is optimized for this one use-case, with all other use-cases being shoehorn…

Are you suggesting to use a separate app for every different use case?

Not at all.

I’m just saying that if you try to suggest Matrix as a “drop in” replacement for WhatsApp or other dedicated IM platforms, it may not immediately give you that “at home” feeling right now.

It’s much more capable, but different. For better and worse.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#518

Post by XCSme » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

_qxjp wrote: post #431

XCSme wrote: post #344

Offtopic: Since when does HN have polls?

Since 2008 (possibly earlier): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=129951

Wow, thanks for the info, I've been following HN daily for about 6 years and this is the first time I see a poll.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#519

Post by b6z » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #207

- Matrix is for now (like Discord) more of "slack like" service alternative (but has potential to become more than that). - Telegram might be the easiest to use where you likely find the most people but I disagree with a lot of things done by/around telegram. - Threema (now open source) is as far as I know the most privacy focused one and by far my favorite. I like the way they are doing many thinks and they have man…

Most of my contacts (tech-oriented, Europe-based) are using Threema and I am most happy with it, especially because I do not have to share my phone number (or complete address book!). And the new video call capability is also working well. Unfortunately, most of the family is WhatsApp only. Since I will not use anything Facebook, they either have to use SMS or contact me via my wife.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#520

Post by lucideer » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

enumjorge wrote: post #348

lucideer wrote: post #64

NOTE: I don't know what Zom is so ignoring it in the below. Viber, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema and Discord are all built on the same paradigm: accounts tied to a single service and thus the inertia of network effect makes vendor lock-in a real problem when acquisitions happen or Terms of Service change. Signal is in theory the "best" of these 5 options in the short-term, but it being open source is utterly ir…

That may be true, but I can’t encourage my social circle to move to an alternative that isn’t polished and has a great user experience for non-technical users. It’s a non starter. Even if I did, the moment they start using it and a) it’s confusing b) most of their circle is using something else, they’ll a) drop it b) ignore my future suggestions :). Take Matrix for example. I had heard of it but hadn’t really looked…

I've been encouraging my social circle to try FluffyChat[0]. I've only recently tried it myself but I would describe the client's I've tried as:

- Riot/RiotX/Element is like Slack on Matrix

- FluffyChat is like WhatsApp on Matrix

[0] https://fluffychat.im/