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Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#401

Post by eldaisfish »

game_the0ry wrote: post #362
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Try not to get mad please, but ... > Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." No such thing as "critical social infrastructure." Could you live without whatsapp? Yes. Then by definition it is not critical. > Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just b…

Your analogies are very poor and all over the place. Can you live without electricity? Sure, if you are willing to severely decrease your quality of life.

Your ISP analogy is again flawed while the OPs' is reasonably relevant. A social communication app has a critical part to being relevant to use - the social part. It's a chicken and egg problem because if people don't use Signal or Telegram or wall, the app serves no useful purpose. The mere existence of a choice does not mean that all choices are equally useful or even relevant.

This argument of "you're lazy" is (ironically) incredibly lazy and often results in software that is unreasonably hard to use - again, an analogy that i hope folks here would understand. Whatsapp works, is simple to use and has sufficient users to be critical infrastructure. Using "laziness" is a cop out. If something isn't broken, don't fix it.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#402

Post by ValentineC »

fsdfgsfsdfsdfsd wrote: post #379
ValentineC wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. I'll be the one friend that'll insist on SMS/email. I’ll even offer to use some other supposedly encrypted method like Keybase or Matrix. If that doesn't work as a fallback, then I guess we can agree to disagree, and someone…

How do you sync and preserve your SMS? Whenever I migrate phones, it is always the most painful part.

I back my messages up to iCloud.

For Android devices, I've been using the SMS Backup & Restore app [1] since Android ~2.1 or so.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riteshsahu...

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#403

Post by hkt »

emsy wrote: post #170
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

That’s not a good comparison. There are many alternatives to WhatsApp and it’s not a „critical“ infrastructure. In contrast, you sometimes can’t choose your ISP and internet is much more critical.

I can choose my ISP in the UK, but we have such brutally entrenched network effects with WhatsApp that it literally means not talking to loved ones and community groups if you quit.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#404

Post by exhilaration »

fahadkhan wrote: post #345
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares that you and your crew are using a WhatsApp alternative, which is why there's no option for you to signal that you're using an alternative. This is for people who want to switch and are looking for suggestions, not for people who are trying to show off that they don't need to switch.

I find it interesting to that people don't use WhatsApp at all. Many posts here are claiming not using WhatsApp is impossible. Grandparent's experience demonstrate that it is.

It depends on the country you're in and what country your extended family is in. Whatsapp absolutely dominates in South Asia and South America. You can see a full map here: https://www.messengerpeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/s...

Most Americans, for example, have no need for it. I feel like iMessage is the dominant messaging platform in the U.S.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#406

Post by hestefisk »

In SG, some government services are big users of WhatsApp. For instance, I was recently placed in 14 days quarantine (stay home notice) after arriving from overseas. All contact with the department of immigration / border protection was via WhatsApp during those two weeks. They would also call us to do control samples at random hours to check that we are in the hotel room.

It’s very convenient of the government to do this, but I do find it a bit dubious at time to mix provision of essential services with FBs marketing tracking. The same with government websites that use Google Analytics, I’m not always sure they should be mixed without thinking properly through the privacy considerations first.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#407

Post by maple3142 »

pedrocr wrote: post #265
beertoagunfight wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram gets a lot of flak for this, but if what they're saying here is true, I believe that it's a pretty sane architecture: https://telegra.ph/Why-Isnt-Telegram-End-to-End-Encrypted-by... Definitely a better alternative to WhatsApp in any case.

That page starts by claiming that Signal doesn't do backups which is false.

Signal's backup is different than what Telegram provides, based on what I read on their webiste: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

On Telegram, login on a new device and you can see your all messages automatically. On Signal, you seems to need to perform it manually, and your history will lost forever if you phone are lost or broken.

I think the first kind of "backup" is what most people would expect, because it is convenient. But to provide this convenience, it can't be full E2E, so Telegram supports secret chat when you need max security if you are willing to sacrifice convenience.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#408

Post by pedrorijo91 »

jbotz wrote: post #283
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…

> What's more, several cell phone operators' plans include unlimited WhatsApp, but only a few GB of other data... meaning when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch.

isn't this illegal? Portugal had such a problem, but i don't think anything happened since this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15905843

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#410

Post by arnoooooo »

Lazare wrote: post #56

Telegram is a great IM experience . The client is good, feature set is good, the stickers are amusing (if you're into that kind of thing), the feature set is complete and everything is polished. Telegram is, I think, going to be one of the easier sells if you're trying to convince non-technical users to switch from WhatsApp or FB Messenger. The privacy, security, and governance story is not great though. If you care…

The governance until now might have been very different, but Telegram is to VK what Whatsapp is to Facebook. In a way, you could say that the enemy of your enemy is your friend, but I'd still recommend Matrix as a seemingly more future-proof alternative.
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