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Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#361

Post by randomsearch »

incrudible wrote: post #323
jbotz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…

I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, b…

I think it’s simpler. Boycotts don’t work at an individual level. I have been boycotting nestle for decades. Can’t say they’ve become less evil. That’s because the marginal effect is negligible for them and strongly negative for the individual (assuming you’re a fan of Kit Kat’s).

Network effects amplify the marginal impact on the individual, because they lead to a monopoly with no true competition. Sure, you can leave whatsapp for signal, but you can’t talk to that community group on WhatsApp from signal. From an individual’s point of view the market power is an absolute monopoly.

The only solution to these problems is organising to the level of a mass boycott, or regulatory intervention. The former is impossible because too many people don’t care about the company’s behaviour (not because they’re ignorant, they just don’t care) and the latter is slow and a very hard and unfun pursuit for campaigners.

Nothing we say to non nerds will be of sufficient magnitude on an individual level. It’d have to be collective action.

Personally I’m far more worried about Facebook undermining democracy right now. That’s sufficient reason to shut them down.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#362

Post by game_the0ry »

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Try not to get mad please, but ...

> Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure."

No such thing as "critical social infrastructure." Could you live without whatsapp? Yes. Then by definition it is not critical.

> Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Not at all. Some areas in the US don't have choice of what ISP they can use, but you have many good choices for messaging apps.

I am growing tiresome of people complaining (on HN, of all places) about how evil facebook and google are but will not go as far as cancelling facebook or using duckduckgo for search, or protonmail for email.

Folks, if you are not happy, you have choices and they are free and very convenient. The services you complain about using for free are not the problem, you're just lazy.

EDIT - you folks in the replies are basically proving my point. Instead of taking ownership over the freedom of choice that you have, you would rather make excuses to justify lack of initiative. That's not a healthy or happy frame of mind to box yourself in, and it gives too much of your emotional influence to the platforms. Like you folks are seriously comparing a messaging app to ISPs and heating in london...really? Give me a break, snowflake.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#364

Post by skrap »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #99

One of the killer features to me is being able to use a client on many varied systems (phone, tablet, computer), which my chat history shared between them. This allows me to very easily get messages anywhere, and pick up the conversation anywhere. Which of these support that?

Matrix supports this. (Check element.io for a good client)

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#365

Post by holstvoogd »

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

I feel ya, deleting whatsapp will not be great for my social life. Neither was deleting facebook, at least at the time when it was still being used. Whatsapp has inserted itself into the social fabric as a benevolent offering and now that we are all locked in we get what we payed for.

But that is all the more reason to get rid of it. Of course this makes life complicated. But if we don't make these hard choices and 'sacrifices', it will never stop. They will keep eroding away at our privacy and freedom. It will only become harder the longer we wait.

This kind of things will keep happening though as long as we allow monopolies and closed platforms. We should really be more careful with accepting these companies into our lives.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#368

Post by kyrra »

zinekeller wrote: post #332
harpratap wrote: post #211

No option for RCS? It's a true successor to SMS and you can switch providers without losing anyone in your contacts. Although I am not really sure how easy it will be to switch clients and use something 3rd party

Mainly because of the fact that it is de facto controlled by Google (via Jibe).

I'm a Googler opinions are my own.

While Google is the main implementer of RCS servers and clients, a few larger carriers have done their own implementation of it, with no need for Google.

Client side, I believe Samsung had their own implementation for it? And Apple could make iMessage RCS compatible, they just have chosen not to at this point.

Edit: to add, RCS does support 1:1 encryption now, though I don't believe it's fully rolled out yet. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-enc.... I'm really hoping this is the last step to get Apple on board with implementing it.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#369

Post by sdfhbdf »

pdimitar wrote: post #68

I use Telegram long before it became sort of mainstream and I haven't regretted that decision for a minute, minus their outages that started happening once every few months lately and are worrying. Tried Whatsapp once, hated it, never tried again. Viber is even worse. Telegram has been what an IM program should be, for years now (it gave me the vibe of my much beloved Miranda IM almost 20 years ago). I'd love it if t…

Telegram has a broken business model from the start. It doesn't make money and it's not sustainable.

Somebody could take over telegram and start a pretty similar service to facebook since most of the chats are not encrypted. So if Durov were not to lead his vision of 100% free Telegram it might get really bad. A service ran on savings of the founder as philantropic as he is is not sustainable. They will either pivot to ads, to profiling or something paid subscription any of which will probably not be received well.

You can see more here: https://fourweekmba.com/telegram-business-model/

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#370

Post by greatgib »

In France, it is well known that the president and a lot of members of the leading political party are personally using Telegram.

I like a lot Telegram, even if I'm a little bit sad that they don't do more to push end to end encryption. One can have a look at cryptpad to see that cloud storage and e2e is possible.

But still, so far, for so long, there never was any proof of any deceptive behavior of the telegram team.

Not a single private message leaked to a gov, company or anyone. So I kind of trust them for the moment.

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