Poll: Switching from WhatsApp • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#281

Post by childintime » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

hoka-one-one wrote: post #195

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

I honestly wish I understood what the big deal is. Don't give the app any permissions and you're good. All they can share then are your contacts.

> All they can share then are your contacts.

Is the phone company allowed to share your contacts?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#282

Post by gdubya » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

aembleton wrote: post #243

sbilstein wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the game has changed with social apps; I’m including messaging as “social.” It is easier than ever to rebuild the important parts of your social graph on Signal, Clubhouse, Snap, IG, whatever platform you need. I talk to the same friends via Twitter DM, WhatsApp, IG, signal, hangouts and iMessage. Open access to contact books and APIs have made this so easy. I can leave WhatsApp and my network will find…

That doesn't apply to me or anyone I know. I know a handful on signal and telegram but the vast majority are on WhatsApp with a smaller number on messenger. People can contact me on signal but I mostly use WhatsApp for group chats and I'm not so important that everyone will install a newaapp just to include me in a group chat.

Signal now supports group chats as well, thought it looks like all participants have to be using Signal otherwise it uses regular MMS and the "group" dynamic breaks down.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#283

Post by jbotz » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp.

What's more, several cell phone operators' plans include unlimited WhatsApp, but only a few GB of other data... meaning when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch.

So yeah, pretty damn close to critical infrastructure. I'm still going to delete my account and see what happens, but unlike the siblings here I can't disagree with parent, at least for Brazil.

[Edit] When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. And otherwise there's really no friction to deleting an account, since you can always recreate it.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#284

Post by m000 » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

Is there any unbiased analysis of the implications of the WhatsApp change of policy? The most popular HN story on the subject [1] tells us little about that.

As far as I can tell, the TL;DR of the change is that your WhatsApp identifier will be linked to your FB data, so that personalized advertisements can be displayed in WhatsApp. The only detail I find highly objectionable in the change, is FB collecting through WhatsApp "Other people’s phone numbers stored in address books." Why don't we focus on the objectionable parts of the change, rather than panicking that there was a change?

Moreover, a less popular HN story [2] mentions that "The new privacy policy also doesn’t apply in Europe due to stronger privacy legislation there." (I can confirm that on my side: I'm living in Europe and I haven't seen the dreaded popup yet.)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25662215 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25668367

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#285

Post by voidmain0001 » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

boraoztunc wrote: post #191

dustinmoris wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. Other people will do the same, and it will snowball into everyone having Signal installed and at some point people will realise that the network effect is gone.

This is happening. First they get surprised that communication is possible beyond WA, even exactly the same. My mother's reaction was hilarious after sending me photos from Signal, free of charge. She was thinking only WA is free, every other app will charge her. I had to explain that calling, voice or video is also possible, without any payment.

How is free sustainable for Signal? I understand why WA is free based on data collection, but Signal just seems too benevolent toward its users. I read up on Signal Foundation (Acton and Marlinspike) as a non-profit which is being buoyed along by $100M from Acton. Mozilla is a non profit too, but it gets money from Google for placing Google search in Firefox. Where is the long term cash flow for Signal?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#286

Post by mslack616 » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

I wish I could switch to Telegram, sadly most people I know use it as a "secondary" chat app for random/funny groups rather than their main app. What's even sadder is that I think most of us can agree that most people really don't care about privacy issues when it comes to apps, most "regular" people just want to use them for the sake of it. It's just people really focused on their privacy or "techies" the ones that have a concern about it.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#287

Post by Algent » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

dan-robertson wrote: post #199

MOUNOPANO wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it possible for this answer to be first... Really HN? WhatsApp is critical infrastructure?? Excluding company ownership, what is the crucial difference between all IM listed? There's LITTLE DIFFERENCE, they all serve the same purpose, feature parity is pretty much there. When you add company ownership to the mix, WhatsApp is owned by fucking Facebook. Let that sear in your mind.

WhatsApp serves the purpose of talking to my friends and family. Signal serves the purpose of talking to myself

Yep exactly, "critical social infrastructure" is on point. Here almost everyone is on WhatsApp and some are on messenger, meanwhile the other apps are only used by a few.

Last year I even had to register on FB to not be out of the loop concerning a sport club I got in.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#288

Post by studius » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

jannes wrote: post #19

Email? Text messages? Phone calls? Those are the only alternatives with enough penetration to rival WhatsApp (that I know of). I know that they are not secure, but neither is WhatsApp.

Yes, I don't see what the problem with text messaging is.

Android now has some compatibility with iMessage, and SMS is standard and supported on most mobile devices, even really old phones.

Why lock-in to WA or any of these options in the poll?

I'd understand if it were vendor-neutral and decentralized, but I don't see that.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#289

Post by arrrg » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

chrisblackwell wrote: post #166

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

I am forced to use the ISPs in my area due to only 1 or 2 alternatives. This is not the case with online communication.

You have to use what people you know use.

What use is switching to some messenger that no one you know uses?

Obviously you can always fall back on SMS and e-mail, probably, but that is a path to social isolation in many cases.

So, it’s not exactly the same as having two ISPs to pick from but to pretend that your choice is completely free and unconstrained is also a dangerous lie to tell yourself and others.

To solve this … well, I don’t know. Probably regulation? Benevolent tech giants that for some reason decide to push open, federated messengers?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#290

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

vletrmx wrote: post #198

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Right, exactly, I have to use WhatsApp because it's what everyone else uses, so leaving isn't even an option.

I had to use Myspace, MSN Messenger and Google Chat, because all my friends were there, too.