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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#961

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I agree with many of your points. What has happened in this country is tragic. Our media hasn't helped by constantly pouring gasoline on the flames and the pandemic has kept us from even being able to really talk to and address one another, ESPECIALLY people who live in cities.

This is utter madness and it has to stop. We have to start to see each other and people and not adversaries. You might like something I wrote last night about how the American mind has been fractured:

https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/the-fracturing-of-the-h...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#962

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

This is absolute nonsense. You are trying your damndest to espouse the HN screed of "Free Speech" but it's got nothing to do with why conservatives have raided the Capitol. Conservatives have raided the capitol for the same they raided Wilmington in 1898, the courthouse in Colfax and why they attacked Ellenton. And that reason is because they feel that white hegemony is under attack, and since democracy can't be used…

Yea, America has gone through worse. It will survive this.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#963

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

other countries also have internet access. the impact on them doesn't appear to be the same. why is that?

It surely does.

Social Media did not create division. Internet did not create division. TV did not create division.

They only amplify it. US was divided long before the creation of Internet. That baseline were far higher than other countries. Compared to other countries Internet definitely has its impact, but the baseline was small it isn't as obvious.

Let's put some number into it.

Division Score of US is 100, Internet Usage as a Multiplier, US also has one of the highest Internet usage ( especially with Social Media ) around the world. if you put that as 10. You get a total of 1000.

Division in Country A is 50, Internet usage as 4 ( If you take social media ads revenue split per capita between US and other countries as an indicator ), you have 200.

That is 5x difference.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#964
The U.S. was this divided politically before WW I.

WW II united most of the country, then the Cold War kept it united. With the end of the Cold War, with no enemy to unite to two half’s of the country it’s back to where we were 100 years ago.

I also live in Trump country and I hear all this nonsense, the “Trumpism”, and slogans etc, are nothing more than racist White people feeling empowered.

It’s the explosion of the repressed racism held in by some white people. That’s why they complain about Politically Correct, they can be openly prejudiced and it kills them.

These people know Trump didn’t win, they know there was no cheating, but it’s all they can say to support their hate, if they say anything else they know they be outed for who and what they are.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#965
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

It looks even worse and obvious when looking from outside. As a non-American, when reading news from the US, I use a few different sources with different political leanings. To say there are 2 realities in America is putting it lightly. It's like watching two unrelated movies about the same theme/place, but with vastly different histories that resulted in each reality. Almost like having two cultures, two countries. I don't know what point I'm trying to make but it is really unnerving to watch. It seems that the media in America has zero integrity and face zero consequences.

Maybe it is social media's fault. Maybe, just maybe, social media and information overload (which reduces critical thought in that moment) is the problem. Nevermind propaganda & conspiracies - just the bubble effects + overloaded conflicting information causes some kind of mental disorder but on a national scale. Too much nonsense being internalize and associated with, on a weekly basis, at some point America will have to ask itself if it is all worth it (social media, 24/7 news & streaming (and not to mention porn and the warping of minds)).

Maybe it is just a result of your political system, that this was always the outcome, because you only have 2 sides. Our world and human life/culture cannot just be boiled down to 2 options. There are so much complexity, nuance and scope context that gets ignored if you are forced to pick 1 of 2 options.

Maybe it is just a result of your economic system & regulations and related social structure & social programs. Maybe, just maybe your people are so badly squeezed to live decent lives (esp when it comes to wages/labour vs the cost of living and your bizarre take on healthcare). Maybe it is the greed and tax system favouring "the already rich". Maybe it is because your political system has too much money flowing through it (much of your political practices are illegal elsewhere).

How can you convince a group of people that they are wrong or doing the wrong thing? When the battlefield is rooted in idealogical is very difficult to convince people otherwise (see religions). Trying to convince the people that invaded your capitol will be fruitless. Punishing them will be fruitless too. Nothing you do will change their minds, cause their minds have been warped to believe in a different reality to what the rest of the world sees.

All I know is that America has a lot of reflecting to do to find/re-find your national identity and to decide if the dragon you've been chasing is the right thing. I truly hope you can find a way without thousands of people dying in civil wars etc (nevermind covid).

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#966
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

You certainly did not have to live with those around you before the internet, and were sometimes very much encouraged not to.

It isn't like the LGBTQ+ community was treated well. It was perfectly acceptable to not hire a queer school teacher, nor was it such a bad thing for students to shun a queer classmate. Or you could look at marriage between "races" and the slurs you got from them. A core teaching of a number of churches is to surround yourself with other believers instead of the non-believer next door. And certainly make sure you fit into your gender roles.

Best not to have communist or socialist leanings in the 50's, nor be asian in the US in the 40's. In so many places, it was outright dangerous to have dark skin.

Sometimes you would just accept those around you because that was all you had access to, which is true... so long as they weren't in the wrong group lest you be treated like the minority.

Social media amplifies some bubbles, but it also breaks a few and some things are more difficult to ignore.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#967
post #823
post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

That's a bad idea. His presidency is basically over. The only thing it would accomplish is to convince his diehard supporters that a coup is in fact taking place and they should respond in kind.

Given that this would make Mike Pence the acting president, how would that be a coup? In this story, would Mike Pence be a puppet to greater, shadowy forces?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#968

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I’ve seen the Georgia video with the black containers placed under a table. After all the poll watchers were asked to leave, the table is moved out of the way and ballots were pulled out of the containers. Nobody has explained that from what I’ve read and it doesn’t really make any sense why it was hidden and why was it pulled out after all the witnesses were asked to leave at the end of the night?

Oh, that's easy. All the stuff the republicans said is contradicted by the democrats, the video shows normal ballot handling procedures, the investigation is still open so you can't see the report, but somebody somewhere filed a sworn affidavit that everything is A-OK and we can proceed with the plan to remove trump.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#969

CSPAN reporting "The National Association of Manufacturers just asked Mike Pence to 'seriously consider' invoking the 25th amendment", which would remove Trump from effective control as President. Quoting a tweet by Sam Mintz https://nitter.net/samjmintz/status/1346931121423077376#m https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FErFCshI

It's just show. That's not going to happen. It's ridiculous to even consider removing him two weeks early. He just put out huge call for peace before Twitter removed his platform.

"huge call for peace", feh.

It's like making a pie with a segment of apple pie and 7 segments of shit, and saying "Look at this beautiful apple pie I made you".

Or, to be closer to reality, it's you seeing Trump's shit pie (with a bit of apple) and announcing "Look the great apple pie Donald Trump made us!"

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#970
post #492

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

This is a good read, if you only read one link of my post let it be this one: https://spectator.us/reasons-why-the-2020-presidential-elect... It's my understanding Trump supporters are mad their concerns aren't taken seriously. Most court cases were dismissed on technicalities, without looking at the provided evidence or testimonies. This is supposed to be the evidence: https://got-freedom.org/evidence/ One example,…

"Someone pulled up cases out from under a table, so I can conclude it's full of fraudulent ballots.".

God damn, maybe I should just say I have this box full of bitcoin wallets in USB disks, someone want to give me a billion dollars for them? And yes, it's enough that you believe me without looking inside the box. Or checking the validity of those wallets.

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