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NFL player IQ by position

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Re: NFL player IQ by position

#11

Post by ojbyrne »

pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Offensive lineman have other physical traits of value though. Namely they're very large (and strong). You'd have to argue that size and intelligence are highly correlated, which seems a stretch.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#12

Post by diego »

ojbyrne wrote: post #11
pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Offensive lineman have other physical traits of value though. Namely they're very large (and strong). You'd have to argue that size and intelligence are highly correlated, which seems a stretch.

His point is that there may be a larger pool of people to choose from, and that you would choose the person with the higher IQ all else being equal. Also a stretch.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#13

Post by pg »

ojbyrne wrote: post #11
pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Offensive lineman have other physical traits of value though. Namely they're very large (and strong). You'd have to argue that size and intelligence are highly correlated, which seems a stretch.

No, just that size and intelligence are more correlated than speed and intelligence.

My guess is that the correlation between size and intelligence is close to zero. So that would imply there's a negative correlation between speed and intelligence. That would be easy to test: just compare the results of the players' IQ tests with their 40 yard dash speeds.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#15

Post by byrneseyeview »

demandred wrote: post #5

When asked about the balls he dropped in big spots, he responded, ‘What about the ball I caught?’” So while an exceptionally score on a standardized test might suggest dyslexia, the guy’s an egotistical bonehead even without mitigating factors. And that is why Manningham is in the NFL and OP is the one writing about him. Excuse someone for wanting to focus on their accomplishments and not their failures and for havin…

I don't know enough people in sports to be sure about this, but my guess is that the people who try to fix their mistakes rather than crow about their successes are the ones who improve over time.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#16

Post by byrneseyeview »

pg wrote: post #13
ojbyrne wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offensive lineman have other physical traits of value though. Namely they're very large (and strong). You'd have to argue that size and intelligence are highly correlated, which seems a stretch.

No, just that size and intelligence are more correlated than speed and intelligence. My guess is that the correlation between size and intelligence is close to zero. So that would imply there's a negative correlation between speed and intelligence. That would be easy to test: just compare the results of the players' IQ tests with their 40 yard dash speeds.

The correlation between size and intelligence is positive, because malnutrition can lower adult IQ and adult size. That correlation is a lot stronger when you control for other variables, of course.

And 'speed and intelligence' is not quite the correlation you want -- IQ correlates with mental reaction time, so smarties may be 'faster' for short distances because they get a head start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_and_intelligence

(The talk page for this article is delightful, by the way)

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#17

Post by occam »

Hi, Occam here. This is just a map of the white/black ratio of each position. There is a 15 point difference between the mean IQ of European-descended (white) Americans and African-descended (black) Americans Please note this is something You Can't Say so don't speak publicly of it.

The most interesting thing to note here is that white players score about half a standard deviation higher than the national white IQ, and black players score about half half a standard deviation higher than the national black IQ. Since life is sort of an IQ test, this isn't too surprising. There are a lot bad decisions you can make to screw up your football career before making the NFL - a higher IQ will keep you away from these things.

As always Steve Sailer is indispensable in these matters: "Are football players dumb? Actually, they are fairly smart. The NFL requires draft prospects to take the Wonderlic IQ test. Offensive guards averaged 107, centers and punters 106, quarterbacks and kickers 104. The speed positions averaged lower: halfbacks, free safeties, cornerbacks, and wide receivers averaged from 91 to 94. Still, at both the white positions and the black positions, prospects scored about a half standard deviation higher than the respective white and black national means.

Of course, IQ tests do a lousy job of measuring improvisational mental ability, which football players, especially the black ones, are particularly good at. (See my classic article "Great Black Hopes" for the full story.)"

That article is here: http://www.isteve.com/blackath.htm

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#18

Post by antidaily »

pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

fwiw, QB Vince Young also scored a 6.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#19

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #13
ojbyrne wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offensive lineman have other physical traits of value though. Namely they're very large (and strong). You'd have to argue that size and intelligence are highly correlated, which seems a stretch.

No, just that size and intelligence are more correlated than speed and intelligence. My guess is that the correlation between size and intelligence is close to zero. So that would imply there's a negative correlation between speed and intelligence. That would be easy to test: just compare the results of the players' IQ tests with their 40 yard dash speeds.

[deleted]

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#20

Post by lexlibra »

pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated:

"Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL starting cornerbacks at the start of the season were white, and none of the 32 starting tailbacks were white. (For some reason, this never gets as much publicity as the perceived lack of black quarterbacks.)"

"As we all know, there is about a 15 point difference IQ gap between whites and blacks, so positions that are black dominated tend to have lower average IQs than positions that are more integrated (or that are white monopolized, such as placekicker and punter)."

( read the whole thing http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/07/graphical-data-analyst-be... )

This seems like a much more plausible explanation of the facts than the "closer to the ball" theory. Are we really that scared of "things you can't say" not to point out something that is obvious to anybody who watches football?

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