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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#951
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The creation of the internet is undoubtedly the biggest factor in this. It created a paradox in people's consumption of information. You not only had the ability to choose what to listen to, you could choose what not to listen.

Another ability the internet has allowed is the creation of communities based around the type of information they consumed which always creates echo-chambers like you pointed out.

It's because of this that many have lost sense of the realities of other people and manifests its own distorted reality.

Not to mention, you also have multi-billion dollar companies utilizing algorithms to keep you there as long as possible, further propagating this effect.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#952
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

> How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality This isn't an accurate representation of the US. There are 4 sides: - extreme left - left - right - extreme right The proportion of each is probably around: 5%/45%/45%/5% (maybe 10/40/40/10) The 5% on each extreme are the one making the news on the other side to insti…

I disagree, left-right isn't sufficient enough to capture the peculiarities of current US politics.

it's more along these three camps:

- Progressives / Left Populists (such as Bernie, AOC, etc...) - they aren't really "extreme left"; they are more moderate lib-left if you ask any Europeans. They don't really want to demolish capitalism as some actual Marxists suggest, they just want to fix/modulate capitalism to be reasonable to the ordinary people, at the expense of large corporations and free market policies. Although some of them are in the Democratic Party, they are still failing to exert any power in there, which is mostly comprised of neoliberals. However, they are gaining an noticeable amount of partisan support these days, up to the point that the neoliberals had to actually strategize a bit to make sure Bernie doesn't win in the DNC primaries.

- Neoliberals / Globalists (Obama, Biden, etc...) - this is where the majority of politicians are at, comprising the majority of the Democratic Party, as well as about half of the Republican Party (or even more). Although it seems on the surface that the Dems and Reps are fighting the shit out of each other, many of them are still bind by the common interest of supporting various austerity policies, free reign of large corporations and making sure the global free market economy continue without any problems. Note that the left tends to use the term "neoliberal" more, while the right tends to use the term "globalists" more. From the left and right populist's view they are the source of all evil, and from a neoliberal's view the populist left/right are respectively "communists" and "fascists".

- Right Populists / Nationalists (Trump, etc...) - Just like the progressives hate that the neoliberals are looting people with austerity measures and skyrocketing housing/healthcare/education costs, the right populists hate that the globalists are looting people by shutting down former industrial businesses, and imposing some weird liberal cultural hegemony upon them. Though I do not completely know the dynamics inside that camp, there seems to be a common agenda of being oppositional to immigration and being pro local business, as well as a deep hatred of liberal media. They have started to take over the GOP party, which is why there are no-Trump Republicans fighting against it.

Trump is kind of an outlier - he was a real-estate neoliberal but was kind of an outcast among them, and he forced his way into politics with many years of reality TV image-shaping. Many on the far-left criticize him being a neoliberal in right populist coating, and some on the far-right are disappointed by Trump about him having achieved nothing (which is a different phenomenon than no-Trump Republicans - I'm talking about actual fascists here!)

There are also some on the left (state communists, anarchists) as well as the far-right (fascists, neoreactionaries) which I've excluded, as they are still a bit fringe.

It also seems that the right often oversimplifies the left as well as the left oversimplifies the right, and that's partially because there are power struggles inside both of the respective camps that makes the whole situation a bit complicated. For example, if you picked a random BLM protester, chances are you'll get a neoliberal (if their protest was co-opted by the establishment Democrats), a progressive (if their protest wasn't co-opted but are still mainly peaceful and still believe in electorialism), or an anarchist (if they do not believe in electorialism and are more interested in looting and smashing the police). A naive right-populist will see protesters destroying police stations and say that the Democrats are letting this happen and the left are all "cultural Marxists", but in reality it's a situation where anarchists are on the rise and the neoliberals are failing to take control over the "peaceful/orderly protest" narrative. Actually, I don't really know if the protestors participating in the violence are simply "anarchists", maybe they are just uninterested in these labels and just want to wreck shit up as they are fed up by many decades of police suppression.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#953

This is a tinderbox. If one person on either side fires a bullet, the ripple effects could be unbelievable

The capitol police did kill an unarmed woamn.

I don't think it's really a tinderbox. This was fucking pure incompetence by the Capitol Police and security forces. They let people walk right in to the Capitol? Seriously?

All of this could have been avoided if someone did their fucking job. I'm just glad Trump people are very peaceful, because this could have turned ugly.

Imagine if those were BLM people like from back in May when they set DC on fire!

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#954

What I dont get is how polarized the states currently is. It's either black or white. Red or Blue. Dems or Republicans. I tend to lean a little to the left myself, but people need perspective. Biden is inheriting a mess, but what I liked was in his initial speech when he said "I dont care if you voted for me or not, I'll be your president". That sparks some hope and I hope it goes to unify the country

..and then the left goes on about prosecuting anyone who helped Trump, about how Trump supporters need to be reeducated.

Biden doesn't get to say that. The democrats have been vicious, mean, nasty and deceitful. Big Tech and Big Media practically covered up the entire Hunter Biden situation claiming it wasn't true; and now it's clear he was under FBI investigation.

You don't get to shit on 50% of the country, tell them they're all racist Nazis for supporting Trump, and then tell them, "We should unify." No state has gotten their day in court. The federal judges are all cowards. People have nothing else. Had the 7th Circuit at least heard testimony before ruling or the Supreme Court given more than a three line bullshit statement on standing, people would at least believe somebody was listening.

No body is listening.

People are losing faith in the system.

I have lost faith in the system, and I have never been a democrat or a republican. I've always been a centrist.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#955

CSPAN reporting "The National Association of Manufacturers just asked Mike Pence to 'seriously consider' invoking the 25th amendment", which would remove Trump from effective control as President. Quoting a tweet by Sam Mintz https://nitter.net/samjmintz/status/1346931121423077376#m https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FErFCshI

It's just show. That's not going to happen. It's ridiculous to even consider removing him two weeks early. He just put out huge call for peace before Twitter removed his platform.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#957

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

This mindset is terrifying and yet most people here would probably agree with you.

We are headed for dark times unless people like you are removed from positions of power.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#958

Where's the tear gas and rubber bullets? Where is the national guard? There was more police response for a fscking photo op!

Well they did shoot and kill a woman, and they were totally pepper spraying people by the end.

But I agree, Capitol Police should have never let this even happen. They knew there was a big protest. They should have been 100% ready for this and they totally dropped the ball.

Good thing very few people even went in and there was little damage. Well except for that women I mentioned. Anyone even know her name yet? Wonder if there will be murals of her.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#960

Arrest Trump. Try for sedition. Goddamn, I'm scared.

Your scared of the wrong thing and the wrong person.

You should be scared of the people who have lost faith in a court full of cowards and an election system that was flooded with mail in ballots from dead people.

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