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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#391

Post by jbverschoor »

grishka wrote: post #382
tinyhouse wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. They did charge something tiny to use the app (I think it was ~$2/year) but in many countries (outside the US where they were much more popular) they didn't block users who didn't pay. If you didn't want to see annoying reminders you would just pay and get rid of it. Many people I know never paid.

For me it simply displayed "the next year of service is on us" once a year, every year. Paying for WhatsApp was something of an urban legend.

I paid.. almost nobody had WhatsApp

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#392

Post by an4rchy »

An interesting strategy from Facebook.

Although the privacy related changes were somewhat expected, the timing and aggresive timeline will likely play out in Facebook's favor.

While giving users a 1 month grace period to either comply (share their data) or delete their account already seems like a pretty aggressive window that limits the ability for users to fully assess options or migrate existing groups/chats to alternative platforms, the short timeline combined with the on-going pandemic, and the fact that WhatsApp has become one of the primary means of communication for many around the world will likely lead to a very limited drop in users leaving the platform as a result of this policy change.

Beyond Febuary, once users have already shared their data, there is likely minimal incentive for groups or individuals to overcome the network effects and move to another platform in the short term.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#393

Post by Nextgrid »

Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

Profit/monetization doesn't have to be bad. There's nothing wrong with money being exchanged for a service and both sides are satisfied. The problem is when that monetization is based on something else than money (such as personal data) or that the company abuses their monopoly position to force people into an unfair deal.

The solution isn't to say "profit = bad", it's to break up monopolies or force interoperability and forbid certain forms of "payment" (such as exploiting and reselling personal data) that are deemed nefarious to society.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#394

Post by knodi123 »

an4rchy wrote: post #392

An interesting strategy from Facebook. Although the privacy related changes were somewhat expected, the timing and aggresive timeline will likely play out in Facebook's favor. While giving users a 1 month grace period to either comply (share their data) or delete their account already seems like a pretty aggressive window that limits the ability for users to fully assess options or migrate existing groups/chats to al…

> to either comply (share their data) or delete their account

Isn't WhatsApp still purportedly end-to-end encrypted? What data is "on the table" when it comes to sharing - just contact lists and phone numbers?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#396

Post by foozocbar »

mr_toad wrote: post #350
seesawtron wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social life is impossible without the mainstream technology. Sure you can find alternatives but if no one uses it other than you, you end up being sidelined. The technology gets enforced and leaves one with no choice but to accept it or be a red flag. Shouldn't it be possible to delete your whatsapp chat and contacts data regularly from the cloud? Eg. one could delete the whatsapp account, clear data on cloud and mak…

> Social life is impossible without the mainstream technology. If people won’t go to the trouble of using an alternate way of getting in touch with you then they’re not really your friends.

If seesawtron won't go to the trouble of using WhatsApp (an alternate way than Signal) of getting in touch with his friends, is seesawtron really their friend?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#398

Post by randoantimine »

knodi123 wrote: post #394
an4rchy wrote: post #392

An interesting strategy from Facebook. Although the privacy related changes were somewhat expected, the timing and aggresive timeline will likely play out in Facebook's favor. While giving users a 1 month grace period to either comply (share their data) or delete their account already seems like a pretty aggressive window that limits the ability for users to fully assess options or migrate existing groups/chats to al…

> to either comply (share their data) or delete their account Isn't WhatsApp still purportedly end-to-end encrypted? What data is "on the table" when it comes to sharing - just contact lists and phone numbers?

> Isn't WhatsApp still purportedly end-to-end encrypted? What data is "on the table" when it comes to sharing - just contact lists and phone numbers?

It is, and same is claimed in their privacy policy and ToS. According to the original article it will include, what is already being collected:

    User phone numbers
    Other people’s phone numbers stored in address books
    Profile names
    Profile pictures and
    Status message including when a user was last online
    Diagnostic data collected from app logs
Along with possibly:

    Purchases
    Financial information
    Location
    Contacts
    User content
    Identifiers
    Usage data and
    Diagnostics
A little more than contact lists and phone numbers.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#399

Post by minusSeven »

tinyhouse wrote: post #341
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that whatsapp used to have an annual charge, and it grew successfully with that. The charge was only removed once FB bought them. Personally I don't know anyone that started using whatsapp after the fb purchase, so they were all happy to pay for their use of a messaging app.

That's not entirely true. They did charge something tiny to use the app (I think it was ~$2/year) but in many countries (outside the US where they were much more popular) they didn't block users who didn't pay. If you didn't want to see annoying reminders you would just pay and get rid of it. Many people I know never paid.

They didn't monetize it because in countries like India if you were to monetize it most users would stop using the app. This I guess is the alternative. Thing is there is no reason to believe others apps won't do the same in the future.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#400

Post by MarcellusDrum »

Totomi wrote: post #194

Ok, here it goes. I like Whatsapp, and this change seems in line with what Whatsapp always has been. Of course I'm always wary of advancements, ready to uninstall it if really bad news arrive, but in general Whatsapp has been respectful of its users, especially those that are privacy concerned. They hired a lead developer from Signal to implement E2E encryption, its functionality is almost completely transperent, whi…

> its functionality is almost completely transperent, which reduces the need to inspect source code to understand functionality.

Can you explain more? Without the ability to see the source code, how can you confirm that e2e encryption is actually being used correctly?

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