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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#881

Post by maxerickson »

koolba wrote: post #867
wnevets wrote: post #167

The difference between the police/military presence when people are protesting the death of unarmed civilians and this nonsense is glaring and very telling.

While violence itself cannot be accepted, I have a lot more respect for a mob that shows up at the doors of Congress than one that shows up at Best Buy.

That's a bullshit cheap shot. The protests this past summer were characterized by non violence, not by showing up at Best Buy to loot.

There was violence and property destruction. But if you count the number of people that protested peacefully and the number of people that engaged in violence and destruction of property, there's one that is obviously vastly larger than the other, and it's the peaceful protesters.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#882

Post by sharatvir »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #724
ineedasername wrote: post #358

This is what happens when a country's leaders actively dog whistle an incitement to violence and others hitch their political future to fiction & propaganda instead of fact.

Anyone with a brain knew this was coming. Honestly it's shocking how many on HN try to defend it. This isn't a republican or democrat issue anymore after what Pence and McConnell said today. The man is a tyrant, and we should all be thankful it is not far, far worse than this.

> Honestly it's shocking how many on HN try to defend it.

Noticing a tendency among many in the tech community to take apolitical & "centrist" positions on many of these issues, which usually ends up with the blaming of "both sides".

Being in the center when one side is so intent on going to the extreme right is not a virtue.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#883

Post by u801e »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

This has always been a tendency for humankind:

1. Gangs

2. Ethnicity

3. Nationalism

4. Religion

Groups of people latch on to an ideology and act on whatever the leader tells them to do or what they see others do. You can observe this when looking at videos of riots or other mob like behavior.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#884

Post by jgwil2 »

eloff wrote: post #823
samch wrote: post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

That's a bad idea. His presidency is basically over. The only thing it would accomplish is to convince his diehard supporters that a coup is in fact taking place and they should respond in kind.

Hasn't it become clear that appeasement won't work with these people?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#886

Post by sharatvir »

marktangotango wrote: post #128
root_axis wrote: post #43

This is a failure of leadership by the republicans - plain and simple. I don't care if this comment is perceived as partisan, it's a statement of fact. If the republican leadership had unequivocally come out against the narrative that the election was stolen, this wouldn't be happening. Edit: Yes, it's true that the top leader and his acolytes have engineered this outcome, but the majority of the republican leadershi…

I was glad to hear McConnel and Pence finally (FINALLY) do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but WHY are you glad about that? If anything that infuriates me more. They have known about these threats for months if not years and decided to do nothing until actual violence was at their doorsteps.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#887

Post by slowmovintarget »

root_axis wrote: post #43

This is a failure of leadership by the republicans - plain and simple. I don't care if this comment is perceived as partisan, it's a statement of fact. If the republican leadership had unequivocally come out against the narrative that the election was stolen, this wouldn't be happening. Edit: Yes, it's true that the top leader and his acolytes have engineered this outcome, but the majority of the republican leadershi…

The failure of leadership by the Republicans occurred in 2016 when no other candidate could manage to beat Trump in the primary. The rest was just the other train cars continuing to derail.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#889

Post by adamsea »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

IMHO we need government regulation around social media. They’re publishers, in some new and novel form.

Right now no social media company will get serious about targeted propaganda because it would cut into their profits.

But regulation can create a level playing field - the rules apply to everyone, so, more-or-less, everyone’s profits take a hit and now you’re not putting yourself in a weaker position vis-a-vis your competitors by addressing all these issues we are seeing.

Regulation can create a level playing field and solve the collective action problem by making all companies do the same thing at the same time, more-or-less.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#890

Post by JamisonM »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The question here kind of implies that there are two kind of equal realities that these chunks of the population occupy but I think that is not a great framing for understanding what is going on.

The vast majority of the US population live in a very normal a-political reality that is largely untouched by narratives that drive the higher-engaged folks' perception of what is going on.

The sliver of the US population that genuinely occupy a different reality is dominated by people that occupy an almost exclusively right-wing media reality. (There is a left-wing media reality for sure, but it is microscopic, counterpunch is just not that highly trafficked!)

The riots in the capitol today demonstrated this quite clearly when contrasted with the protests that kick off the Trump presidency. The "women's' march" was a fairly clear statement in acknowledgement of Trump's presidency but a denial that it was truly representative of popular will. Today's demonstration & riot was populated by a mix of people consuming non-facts and fabulists exploiting those people. QAnon followers were prominent and appeared to be at least a plurality if not a majority of the participants. The people filming themselves in Nancy Pelosi's office were prominent neo-nazis or YouTube provocateurs (Fuentes and BakedAlasaka).

A few thousand people on the capitol overwhelmed a police force that was at least partially sympathetic and was certainly understaffed, in the alternate reality where the opposition to Trump were anti-democratic in the same way they would overwhelm any force arrayed against them in a similar way much more easily through sheer quantity, but they don't hold those views or endorse those methods.

Roughly 1/3rd of voters thing the presidential election was fraudulent, but closer to 1/5th think Trump really won according to Morning Consult, some of this is just facing the fact that the US has always been a bit of a low-trust/conspiratorial society. Some of what is going on is certainly better reporting on what is really happening - things that have actually always happened. Some of what is happening is just good old fashioned bad leadership!

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