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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#791

Post by scythe »

_qulr wrote: post #295
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The people do it to themselves. They believe what they want to believe, hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see. This is still largely a free country where there are multiple independent sources of "news", and individuals voluntarily expose themselves or not to whatever they choose. As far as I know, nobody is tied down in a chair and forced to watch certain TV shows or listen to certain radio shows fo…

We talk about filter bubbles of information, but there are also filter bubbles of association. It is easier than ever to surround yourself with people who agree with you about almost everything.

People don't simply consume information and form ideas like a summary-generator. There's a strong component of imitation and rehearsal that is disrupted when the patterns of engagement with other people are drastically changed.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#792

Post by mxcrossb »

fhrow4484 wrote: post #458
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

> How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality This isn't an accurate representation of the US. There are 4 sides: - extreme left - left - right - extreme right The proportion of each is probably around: 5%/45%/45%/5% (maybe 10/40/40/10) The 5% on each extreme are the one making the news on the other side to insti…

I don’t agree with your assessment. The difference between the 5% and 45% isn’t about belief, but opportunity. Look at this poll: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...

> Supporters of President Trump have stormed the US Capitol to protest lawmakers certifying Joe Biden’s election victory. Based on what you have read or heard about this, do you support or oppose these actions?

45% of Republicans said yes! Now I am not asserting that half of republicans are about to engage in sedition. But is it because they have different beliefs? No, instead I think it’s just that the 5% you describe has nothing to lose.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#793

Post by nauvis »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

1. The rise of mass media, and a mass media culture that promotes scare news. 2. The rise of social media which allows people to tailor their content to what they want to hear, including conspiracy theories 3. A general trend over the last 20 years of Americans becoming more isolated in their own communities from one another, leading to distrust of others 4. Various individuals and groups have an interest in keeping the US government divided and gridlocked to avoid legislation damaging their interests. 5. Trump. Trump has promoted this, directly and indirectly, throughout 2020.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#794

Post by wolco2 »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Mainstream media started killed credibility in the 80s and what we see is the result of a media that thinks it speaks for all but represents only half at best.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#795

Post by MacTavish »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #785
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Yeah, I do based on the evidence presented ( https://hereistheevidence.com/ ), the lack of legal cooperation and understanding from the Democrats, and the premature media dismissal and disrespectful treatment of the Republicans. I know a large part of the evidence is not compelling, but the combination of factors before, during, and after the election made me require a proper localized audit for several key places to…

Because if there’s one thing we’ve learned today, it’s that Republicans deserve respect

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#796

Post by daniel957 »

daniel957 wrote: post #618

dang@: I still think you’re wrong about the HN community. It’s exactly what I said it was in my other comment.

For whoever downvoted me, calm down! dang@ and I had a conversation over the weekend on a different post about the HN community. I didn’t leave a comment today about it.

I asked him to show me data that confirms that the HN community is not what I think it is. I partially believe this is why he added the link in his comment since he added a similar link in his reply to me over the weekend.

And his comment today was basically what I said in the other post. The HN community is going to behave themselves on the millionth hate post about Electron or Amp urls. But they’re going to show their asses on these sort of posts.

dang@ basically agreed with me but then said “But still, no the community is fine.” You can’t use silly Electron posts to prove that point.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#797

Post by dane-pgp »

Gwypaas wrote: post #290
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Single member districts coupled with todays media and social media. This naturally leads to the natural balance being two parties, which has to oppose each other to the extreme in all topics, which then diverges further and further creating the US today. Different variants of multi member districts or proportional representation allows for the both the progressive left and far right which today feel left out to form…

Thank you for highlighting the need for electoral reform, and pointing towards the "winner takes all" nature of most US elections as being the poisonous tree from which these fruits keep falling.

A proportional voting system would both allow new parties to emerge and prevent extremist or divisive candidates from leading those parties. That in turn would give people more options and make them more likely to vote (and less likely to excuse bad actors within their own party).

I would be careful about directing the blame at "single member districts", though. In the US, the most popular type of reform seems to be Instant Run-off Voting, which has its flaws, but avoids the potential criticism that multi-member districts face, namely that a voter's elected representative may end up living much further away from them. (Personally I'd rather a representative who is closer to my political viewpoint than to my physical residence, but I think that much of the criticism for multi-member districts are in bad faith anyway, and thus not amenable to reasoned debate).

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#798

Post by bjornsing »

bcherny wrote: post #639
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I just finished Lippmann’s 1922 classic Public Opinion. In it he argues that different people may draw completely different conclusions from the same facts due to three things: 1. Sampling. There’s a big universe of facts, and each media outlet reports on a tiny piece of this universe. 2. Stereotypes. When you read a news story, you unconsciously pattern match and associate it to related examples you have in your min…

Reminds me of Jaynes point that IIRC the beliefs of two perfectly rational agents with very different Bayesian priors can diverge even if they are presented with exactly the same facts/information/data...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#799

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

vulcan01 wrote: post #453
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I'll posit an additional factor: people who are disenfranchised and desperate are more likely to believe conspiracy theories and act on them. Andrew Yang talked about this a lot during + after his campaign, and also this paper: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3791630 (sorry to those who don't have jstor... I'll try to find stuff)

Yeah, that’s a myth. Trump voters are more affluent than Democrats.

See all those confederate flags today? The gallows? The Auschwitz shirts? When they tell you they are motivated by racism, believe them!

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#800

Post by willis936 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #582
samch wrote: post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

Or impeach & convict. He’s a threat to the republic, and he has to go.

Convict takes 2/3. DC falling is more likely than the miracle that has republicans crossing party lines to alienate their monstrous base.
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