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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#761

Post by toomanyrichies »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

To me it feels like a multi-step process, caused by a mix of our worst human tendencies:

1) People prefer news coverage which confirms their previously-held beliefs (aka confirmation bias).

2) News outlets are financially incentivized to deliver news which confirms whatever beliefs we may have, since if we don't then viewers will change the channel. This causes news outlets to balkanize along various points on the political spectrum, ranging from extreme right-wing to extreme left-wing.

3) News outlets receive 100% of the gain of confirming our biases, but pay less than 100% of the total cost of doing so (aka "the tragedy of the commons").

4) Viewers end up consuming primarily (if not exclusively) media which confirms their biases. This becomes a self-reinforcing echo chamber.

5) Simultaneously, there has been a proliferation of media outlets. In the 1950s, there were 2-3 TV channels from which one could consume news. Today, there are 500 channels on DirecTV, and any number of internet news sites / Twitter accounts / etc. where you can get your fix.

6) In the old days, news outlets had to be moderate in their reporting, in order to appeal to the broadest possible audience. Conversely, the more sources of information there are, the louder any individual source must become, in order to stand out from the crowd.

7) With the internet, it's possible to create news outlets which cater to a minority of people who hold extreme viewpoints (aka capturing the long tail of the media market).

8) Over time, there are more and more outlets delivering more and more extreme reportage, and the news we consume becomes more extremist in nature.

9) Since our news diet plays a big part in shaping our worldview, over time we ourselves become more extreme.

I'd love to be wrong about this, since it doesn't bode well for the future of the human race. Someone please restore my faith in humanity by effectively rebutting the points above.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#762

Post by pastrami_panda »

meowkit wrote: post #674
JosephHatfield wrote: post #625

Capital Police opened the security line, encouraged the "protesters" inside, and were even shown having selfies taken with them. What other conclusion can you reach than that this was supported if not organized by someone with authority over the security forces sworn to protect the Capital? If true, this is Sedition.

Its not true please don’t parrot nonsense. The cops were relatively gentle compared with the summer protests, but they didn’t just let people inside. Here is a livestream of the initial run on the steps: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_dGyEhnhGdw&feature=youtu.be

The breach seems to happened around 01:03:25.

It's hard to tell but it looks like a door was either breached or opened to the far left. There is a loud thud happening at the same time but it's hard to tell if that's what caused it.

It's seems to be off the side of the barricades so it doesn't appear anyone was "let in".

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#763

Post by RhodoYolo »

slumdev wrote: post #468
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Fraud occurred. That much is tautological. A single instance of a dead person voting proves the statement true. To say, "fraud didn't occur," is an outright lie. The debate is over (1) how much fraud occurred and (2) whether it affected the results. Someone else posted the "Here is the Evidence" link. Too many videos of (R) election judges being denied access to counts done in secret, organizers paying for votes, pos…

hmmm... The fact that this comment is being downvoted shakes my believe in HN. Fair statements, fraud did occur.

The fact that a standing presidents twitter account was banned is also very unamerican, no matter what he's saying.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#764

Post by edavis »

_fq4v wrote: post #690
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I'm a trump supporter. I don't believe the election was stolen necessarily. However, there are major issues that have gone unresolved and unexamined by courts and cases dismissed without investigation. For example, in PA, a judge ordered the election officials to allow republican watchers to view the counting, and struck down the distance requirements set by the governor due to COVID. However, election officials refu…

Regarding "the Constitution says only the legislature sets the election rules," David French had a good post debunking some falsehoods about this line of thought: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/debunking-the-frivolou...

In a nutshell: Yes, state legislatures are responsible for deciding the "Manner" used to appoint Presidential electors. And in most states, the "Manner" set forth by the state legislature is "general ballot at the general election."

And as long as that process occurs, stuff like disputes over deadlines, drop box locations, signature verifications, etc stay squarely in the realm of election administration. As Judge Brett Ludwig (a Trump appointee) put it:

> But issues of mere administration of a general election do not mean there has not been a “general ballot” at a “general election.” Plaintiff’s conflation of these potential nonconformities with Constitutional violations is contrary to the plain meaning of the Electors Clause. If plaintiff’s reading of “Manner” was correct, any disappointed loser in a Presidential election, able to hire a team of clever lawyers, could flag claimed deviations from the election rules and cast doubt on the election results. This would risk turning every Presidential election into a federal court lawsuit over the Electors Clause. (Internal citations omitted.)

(Source: https://www.scribd.com/document/487916351/12-12-20-Trump-v-W...)

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#765

Post by pdonis »

gameswithgo wrote: post #494
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

> Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information.

Yes. And thirty or forty or fifty years ago (remember the Internet itself is more than 20 years old), we had even less diverse access.

However, that does not mean the information we got back then was more reliable than the information we get now. It just means it was harder back then for we the people to spot when we were being misinformed, lied to, or just plain not told about things we should have been told about.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#766

Post by dang »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

This subthread is in reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25661674 but I've detached it in a feeble effort to reduce the steam coming out of our server.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#767

Post by [deleted] »

dontbeevil1992 wrote: post #179
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Hmmm idk... anyway, time to get back to grinding leetcode so I can go work at Facebook and make 200k instead of a paltry 150k somewhere else!!

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#768

Post by caddemon »

majormajor wrote: post #543
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

Speech aside, what about looking through a lens of personal responsibility? Some people don't take responsibility for offending others, they'd rather place the blame on the person who heard them. You think that's rather a minor problem, ok. Let's skip past the question of offensive speech for now... Let's talk about preserving a democracy. What happens when people no longer feel any responsibility for citizens having…

This is an interesting point, thanks. I definitely perceive an increasing lack of personal responsibility across the board honestly. A lot of the identity politics/victim one-upmanship stems from this IMO, but I'm glad you presented the other side of it, that people don't want to take any responsibility for when they are actually an asshole either. Not to "both sides" it, but I believe it's deeply concerning how people seem to have fallen away from proper introspection. Which can manifest in bad ways on both sides indeed.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#769

Post by [deleted] »

_qulr wrote: post #295
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The people do it to themselves. They believe what they want to believe, hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see. This is still largely a free country where there are multiple independent sources of "news", and individuals voluntarily expose themselves or not to whatever they choose. As far as I know, nobody is tied down in a chair and forced to watch certain TV shows or listen to certain radio shows fo…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#770

Post by potions »

ashtonkem wrote: post #571

Arguably this is the first successful assault on the capital building since 1814, when British troops took over Washington DC and burned the White House down.

In addition to the 1954 gallery shooting there was the document door shooting where someone killed two capitol police officers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_Capitol_sho...

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