Live data from Hacker News

US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

bbc.com

321–330 of 349 posts

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#321

As noble as it sounds, I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre. That is certainly a relief for the patients who have huge debts but not so great for the future patients who could have been treate…

I have business partners who are doctors that regularly earn half a million a year. The ones that own (successful) practices earn even more. See: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specia...

Do you imply that the doctor in this case could just easily open another clinic? Or that he doesn't need to because of enouch savings?

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#322
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming that while people don't like rationing things based on wealth, their objection is to the rationing more than the wealth. There are alternatives to rationing things by wealth. All the ones I can think of are arbitrary, unfair, or unworkable (raising interesting and difficult questions too, eg, a fun example would be should highly contentious politicians be first in line for the best healthcare due to thei…

There is no need for magical thinking, but you do need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Many countries view it as a much simpler problem of optimizing their society as a whole: 1. There are N doctors & medical supplies. 2. There are M people that have an illness. 3. How can we as a society make sure that these M people don't die? Then, you (as a society) make up a set of rules and incentives and ec…

You're avoiding the question of "how do we choose who doesn't get access to a scarce resource" there though.

It is all very well to say "we'll prioritise illnesses that kill people", but pretty much every death can be traced back to an illness. Even the ageing process could reasonably be defined as an illness, it probably will be one day if the world hasn't gotten there already. That leaves the unlimited nature of healthcare as an open problem. We all die, and arguably anything other than an accident death is people dying sick.

> Then, you (as a society) ... define what "adequate" means based on your resources.

Your country, and the US if if isn't your country, has already done that. The political process asked that question with Obamacare, for example. That is pretty recent accounting of what resources are available and what the people thought they could do with them.

And you've not grappled with the key question - we aren't going to use wealth to decide who gets healthcare. Ok, take that as a premise, we aren't using wealth to decide allocation questions. So someone comes up and says they need more healthcare. We don't have the resources to deal with them. What is the criteria where they get told no vs someone else loses treatment? You're not allowed to say "well, we're assuming there is enough for both" because there are finite resources and infinite demands. We aren't dealing with food here where everyone can reasonably be fed. Everyone suffers from diseases and could use healthcare.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one seems to mind Oh we mind alright, we just don't have effective means of changing the system.

Not as long as the US citizenry as as afraid of taxes and 'socialism' as they are.

We’re not interested in exchanging one set of pigs for another.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Private healthcare should be abolished entirely. Wouldn't this mean using the police to arrest people if, e.g. a person got a doctor to look at them or suggest a treatment for a condition and it wasn't something that had gone through government channels?

Perhaps at an extreme point, but most white collar crime is dealt with by fines and licensing rather than arrests and jail. E.g minimum wage laws.

But if you refuse to pay the fine on the grounds that you consider it unethical to withhold medical care from someone who requests it, you’d still be subject to incarceration?

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#325
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just calling out that health care coverage in Canada isn't all peaches and cream. I've experienced both systems so I know what the pros/cons of each are. Here is another examples: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/patients-liv... People in pain (who can't work or even walk) waiting 2 or 3 years for hip replacement. A friend of my mom's in BC is 85, needs a new hip and the gov't said no. Not "no, may…

> I'm just calling out that health care coverage in Canada isn't all peaches and cream. I've experienced both systems so I know what the pros/cons of each are. As have I. The US system is also generally ranked below the Canadian system on every measure I've seen. That doesn't necessarily mean much, as being better than the worst isn't much to write home about. One great example of this is the US is the only developed…

Sure. Again, if you are lower middle income you’re better off in Canada. If not, better off in the US.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, you make them an offer. I've negotiated several debts. Its easy, they usually make it clear what they are willing/able to do. I paid one at 30% and one at 50%.

How bad did your credit score get wrecked?

I wasn't the type of person to record those details, sorry :)

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have business partners who are doctors that regularly earn half a million a year. The ones that own (successful) practices earn even more. See: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specia...

Do you imply that the doctor in this case could just easily open another clinic? Or that he doesn't need to because of enouch savings?

Neither. You wrote:

>I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre.

I presumed you were not aware that the doctor himself (or his personal business) was capable of being owed $650k. So I was pointing out that doctors (or the businesses they own) do earn enough to be able to be owed $650k that they can forgive.

Now that I re-read your comment, I'm actually not sure what you meant or where hospitals came into play. This doctor closed his business because he retired, it had nothing to do with the debt he was owed. And since he (or his business) was the entity that was owed $650k, it seems well within his rights to choose not to pursue payment for the debt.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#328
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries are slipping, though. For example, Germany does not actually have a single-payer system, but instead a "system" of public and private health insurance companies. As an employee you`re usually in the public system, which can be more expensive for higher-earners because the fees are based on your income (although the health taxes are regressive, capped above like 65K income per year). Self-employed peop…

> The problem is you can´t easily opt back into the public system once you´re out (especially once you´re old), so there are tens of thousands (if not hundreds), that get stuck in the private system without being able to pay the fees because they´ve become poor (possibly because of health reasons), and then they get denied coverage and thus access to medical services. Although I recognize the personal hardship this c…

The point is that there exist cracks in that many people will fall through and society at large doesn't even know that they are there; society as a whole is in denial about the problem because they can look at utterly dysfunctional systems like the US and and say "we're so much better here". Part of the problem is that many of those who are aware of the problem blame the individuals themselves for falling through the cracks in the system (like you do, based on some notion of 'choice'). One possible solution (it seems you agree with me here), is to remove the division between public and private systems. The first step ist to accept the existence of a problem instead of denying it (blaming individuals is a form of denying systemic issues).

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not insurable in the sense that at some point, the losses are so large and so frequent, that the insurer needs to collect premiums from almost everyone in order to cover the costs. I actually do consider the premiums a tax for the following reasons Could it be that you limit your perspective onto only the US at the current point in time? Otherwise what you say just doesn't make any sense and your points can't…

>Could it be that you limit your perspective onto only the US at the current point in time? Otherwise what you say just doesn't make any sense and your points can't be generalized. And even in the US, health insurance is not mandatory (as you say yourself), hence I would still not call it a tax. What I mean by insurable and uninsurable is that an entity can come in and sell insurance which can benefit the buyer alone…

> I agree, and that's why I don't like using the word insurance when it's not really insurance in the conventional sense.

Once again: that might not how it works in the US, but the US is not the world and hence irrelevant for the _general_ concept of insurability for healthcare. If you only want to talk specifically about how it is _right now_ and _only in the US_ then I agree with your sentiment.

I'm just answering to your post because I have the impression that you are making very general statements.

> What I mean by insurable and uninsurable is that an entity can come in and sell insurance which can benefit the buyer alone, and is not an explicit subsidy to the other insureds in the risk pool.

That's how it works though, maybe not in the US but for example in Germany.

> However, for health, it's a no brainer to opt out of health insurance between ages 20 and 40 (maybe not if you're a woman that's going to have kids). This makes the risk pool completely full of people experiencing losses and that point, it's just a cost sharing arrangement.

If by "no brainer" you mean that some or many young people "don't think" and do something irrational, then yeah.

Someone who thinks about it and makes an informed decision will _not_ opt out when they are young. There are two reasons: 1.) Even when you are young, you can get cancer, HIV or other chronic and expensive diseases that exceed your savings by far. 2.) Even if you can pay your diseases out of your pocket, you might get a disease that is cheap when you are young but will cost much more when you get older. If so, you won't be able to pay the price of insurance anymore when you are older. However, insurers can (and do, maybe not in the US) offer contracts where they cannot cancel the contract from their sides just because you get sick or more expensive - however, therefore the premiums are higher (even when young) so that they can cover the costs that statistically will happen. Essentially, if you are young and stay healthy until you die, you will have paid all your life long for the people of your approximate age that also were healthy in their youth but became sick when they got older.

As for your point about calling it a tax in the US:

> I think we'd be better off if we referred to this as a tax and recognize that the increase in insurance premiums is going towards benefiting others by giving them access to previously inaccessible healthcare.

I think both the current and your proposed solution are not optimal. IMGO the right approach is to apply separation of concerns: 1.) Decide for a standardized "minimum" that any insurer can offer and get certified for their plans if they fulfill the criteria 2.) Make this minimum standard mandatory for everyone, but allow for the choice of which exact plan and insurer to choose 3.) Let premiums be premiums which everyone pays to the insurer 4.) If someone can prove they cannot pay, they get supported by the state so that they can pay for a minimum plan (otherwise it can't be mandatory obviously) 5.) Whoever wants to have better insurance can get a plan that covers the minimum + more stuff

Now there is clear distinction between premiums and tax which is used to pay for people who cannot afford health insurance.

Oh, also, the US could stop this strange way of pretty much tying insurance to employer. I never understood how this could happen.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#330
post #317
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, for those of us not in the know, what is it about La Care that provokes this response?

UCLA and Cedars-Sinai are both world class providers, but take little to no insurance available on Covered California. LA Care is a rare "public option" run by LA county. When I switched from Oscar to LA Care this year, I did so because both UCLA and Cedars showed up as "in network" for LA Care. And when they assigned a UCLA clinic physican down the street as our primary, I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.…

Thanks for the additional info =)...
Post reply on HN