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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#691
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Many of the US's problems have been subdivided along political lines such that no solution can be brought forward as both sides benefit from the lack of a solution.

3-4 decades of utter gridlock has left the country with both a power vacuum and many aggrieved parties looking for a break from the status quo.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#692
post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

I don't think that would solve a single thing.

All in all, there are much more pressing concerns facing the USA right now than the unimportant fallout from the election, although you'd never know it from turning on the news right now.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#693

"Democracy is a system in which parties lose elections" - Przeworski In other words, the core concept of democracy isn't the elections or any of the other trappings, it's the fact that it's possible for one group to lose power, transition to another group and retain the possibility to transition back in a subsequent election to the original group.

I would understand conspiracy theories when the incumbent party keeps on winning. It's easy to come to conclusion that the game is rigged in less democratic countries where the person wins over and over with 90% of the votes, or with leaders such as Putin.

But I just don't understand how losing an election that was looked over by members of your own party, and won by similar margins which you won by previously, can be this controversial. Let alone the fact that the party still did really well in all the other ballots including house and senate.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#694
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Not an American, living in EU. It somehow reminds me of Weimar Germany, with two very fringe (sometimes militant) opposing groups radicalising the rest of the society -- or the rest just ignoring the whole mess and going about their lives.

In the Weimar Republic, KPD and NSDAP parties representation in the Bundestag, as distinct parties with relatively large representations.

In 1932, the KPD had 360k members, 5m+ votes, and 14-17% of the electorate. From 1928, the KPD was basically the Stalin party. They believed that the SPD (most analogous to modern-day "Democrats" in USA) were fascist, let alone the NSDAP.

There is no modern equivalent to the KPD in contemporary American politics. The most left-leaning elected officials in the Bundestag-equivalent would have been SPD members. The fringe militant people on the left in the USA do not have any political representation at the federal level, mostly because they do not exist in meaningful numbers, certainly not anywhere approaching 10-17%.

I think that 10-17% might exist on the right (it is probably closer to 5%), but especially after this year, it will become clear that the Republican Party (more analogous to the CDU, historically) is not their party.

If history is cyclical, Trump will form his equivalent of the DNVP shortly, which will not be radical enough for the people storming the Capitol today. This election and transfer of power might be the American Dolchstoß moment, in retrospect. I really hope we've learned.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#695
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Seeing things like this make me wonder how long it will be until the US splits into two roughly equal-sized countries.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#696
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

My take: 1) On web sites like this I've noticed a rule "Assume good faith". But in real life there are lots of people who say things in bad faith. In the case of PR people and trial lawyers and partisan politicians it seems to be in the job description to say things in bad faith. I have no solutions on how to fix this- I don't believe in God but I can imagine a deity punishing people who choose to exercise their free…

Hard agree on 1. Don't have an answer other than "superhuman AI ruling humanity", but that is not fun, because at that point we stop being the protagonists of our own story.

About 2:

> Since this has never been tried as far as I know I don't know if my solution could even work.

This was tried, during various revolutions that included the phase of killing the rich people and collectivizing their wealth. I worry your suggestion here would end up being used the same way - with prominent CEOs getting their companies auctioned from under them by angry mobs.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#698

It is despicable how tepid the police response to armed rioters storming the Capitol has been compared to the response to BLM protests over the summer.

What evidence do you have that they are armed? In every piece of media I've seen, no one has anything in their hands.

NYT is reporting at least 5 guns seized so far, 13 arrested. Early numbers and not hard to extrapolate that many who got out when it was open season could also be armed.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06/us/washington-dc-pro...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#699
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

All goes back to Reagan's repeal of the Fairness Doctrine which gave rise to biased political based news coverage a la Fox News. Since then, political polarization has increased each year until we got to the point we're at where both sides see the other as dangerous and lacking legitimacy. It's a lose-lose downward spiral.

Prior to around ~1990s Fox News (and ABC/CBS) were the mainstream. CNN was a tiny backwater news station that didn't grow to popularity until the 1991 gulf war in which they had by far the best reporting and everyone else was re-broadcasting CNN. CNN is what grew out of the repeal of the fairness doctrine.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#700
post #383
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The mainstream media did this to themselves. They actively promoted outright lies, conspiracy theories, politically convenient fake facts (“masks don’t work”) and misinterpretations of truth. The end result is, nobody trusts anyone. We’re seeing one side of the story, but I suspect if Trump narrowly won, it would be the same.

Doing it in Venezuela would be more appropriate. He can mirror Guaido
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