U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#491

Post by christophilus » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #454

Someone on reddit made an interesting comment about how many foreign agents are using this opportunity to plant bugs in various locations.

I was just thinking that one of those loonies is probably planting a bomb somewhere hidden. Security is going to have to do an insane sweep of the place once before congress is allowed back in.

Edit: Also, if someone wanted to go to war with the US, it looks like it'd be pretty trivial to shut down the central leadership... This is quite an event.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#492

Post by Vomzor » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

This is a good read, if you only read one link of my post let it be this one: https://spectator.us/reasons-why-the-2020-presidential-elect...

It's my understanding Trump supporters are mad their concerns aren't taken seriously. Most court cases were dismissed on technicalities, without looking at the provided evidence or testimonies.

This is supposed to be the evidence: https://got-freedom.org/evidence/

One example, the Georgia video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ0xDWhWUxk And the comments about that video: https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/07/no-the-georgia-vote-cou...

Then there's this: https://twitter.com/MArepublican18/status/134659696972941721... https://twitter.com/Maximus_4EVR/status/1346582356899991552

PA & AZ Republicans wanting to decertify Biden after the election fraud hearings in their states. Not sure how serious those attempts are.

I'm European so I don't have a horse in this race.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#493

Post by plouffy » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

Const-me wrote: post #480

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I do. https://hereistheevidence.com/ and many other sources. Congresses of some states had hearings, interviewed many testimonies. Independent journalists did tons of research, see e.g. https://www.theepochtimes.com/2020-election-investigation-wh... All courts so far declined to hear anything about the fraud, dismissing cases for contrived reasons. The riots are rather expected.

Courts have not declined to hear anything about fraud, Trump's lawyers are the ones that have declined to call it fraud. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/politics/trump-giulian...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#494

Post by gameswithgo » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is flat, the election was stolen, etc, and believing it.

I think a lot of HN readers who are fairly sophisticated forget that half of the world is not. Diverse information diets are not a good thing, because most people are not equipped to understand what is reasonable.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#495

Post by hpoe » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

xapata wrote: post #419

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

That all sounds plausible, but I am skeptical that today is significantly different from other historical periods or nations that had/have similar tribalism. Look back far enough and you'll find rich stories of senators murdering each other. Sure, ancient Roman history, but relevant today. Many societies of the past have had our same divisions. Rather than making conjectures about why today is different, it might be…

You don't need to go that far back in the mid 1800's one Senator beat another Senator almost to death on the Senate floor.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#496

Post by JKCalhoun » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #461

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

> 2. Having access to a diverse information diet I am fully for it, but I believe the ones who need to change the informational diet are not ones who you think they need. If today's events make any surprise to HN readers. I will tell them they spent not last 4 years, but like 20 years under a rock, and have no idea whatsoever what moves the political pendulum to the right with such force. And they don't want to hear…

The last U.S. civil war had the politicians from the southern states seceding.

Is that what you were predicting 3 years ago, still predicting?

Because all I see are rioting by people who have lost any upward mobility they might have once had.

They'll be burning Teslas next but that doesn't make it a civil war.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#497

Post by jmull » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

bcheung wrote: post #256

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Is there any source that has a bunch of the claims and refutations to it? Just saying fraud doesn't exist doesn't help calm the outrage of those who believe it was stolen. Also based on how partisan the impeachment was it is likely people don't trust the government to have any sense of accuracy and merely attribute it to partisan lines. The strategy of acknowledging what someone says and then responding to it often c…

They’re out there if you want to search for them.

I went through three or four of the statistical analyses that purported to show the election results were practically impossible.

They were trivially junk. E.g. one compared the voting rate in 2020 and 2016 but used votes to registered voters in 2020 but votes to eligible voters in 2016.

The others were similarly laughable, but no body cared when I posted this.

Others says it better than I can, but the people who believe this stuff believe it because they want to, not because it makes sense. Facts and reason didn’t get them to this point and facts and reason isn’t going to pull them back.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#498

Post by MrRiddle » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #344

rwcarlsen wrote: post #141

I don't understand how the same people who said we should defund the police are forcefully suggesting that we need a strong police response here? I'm not going to take any sides. All sides are so rife with hypocrisy that I just don't know what to say.

We don't need a strong police presence. There are armed people storming the Capitol building, this is absolutely the time for a military response.

You have almost 80 million people thinking those people are correct. This is not a coup, this is a brink of civil war.

And that's healthy, I believe opposing sides should have a go at it.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#499

Post by abeppu » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #423

Here’s a “fun” thought: if you were running a foreign intelligence operation in the USA, surely you’d try to get one of your agents into the mob that got into the Capitol building and given free reign over all those computers, computers that were not locked properly before the legitimate users fled for their safety? I’m not just talking about Russia and China here, I mean all the intelligence agencies.

This is totally not my area. But are most offices for members of congress not able to keep the _really_ secret stuff on their own systems? Like, is the most sensitive stuff only in a well-secured SCIF in the basement or something?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#500

Post by justin66 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

awnird wrote: post #123

https://twitter.com/AmyEGardner/status/1346899227964813314 Armed fascists now taking the fight to Georgia. The republic is dead.

This is sadly just another day at the office for Georgia election officials. Not really comparable to what's going on in the Capitol (the AJC didn't even have mention of it on their webpage last I checked)