U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#391

Post by pertymcpert » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #321

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

If you don't get a lot of responses, it isn't because those with cohesive arguments don't exists; it's because it has become increasingly dangerous to express views counter to the mainstream narrative.

Ok, why don't you tell us what you think? No one is going to attack your home.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#392

Post by maayank » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Really liked Hypernormalization by Adam Curtis on the phenomena: https://youtu.be/fh2cDKyFdyU

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#393

Post by adsche » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #385

shadowfacts wrote: post #40

It is despicable how tepid the police response to armed rioters storming the Capitol has been compared to the response to BLM protests over the summer.

> It is despicable how tepid the police response Having been gassed and flashbanged all summer in Portland while protesting for Black Lives, the last word I can imagine using to describe police restraint is "despicable." I don't wish that shit on anybody.

Yeah. I understand the unfortunate symbolism of right-wing intruders taking the chambers but I still think in terms of injuries/ fatalities while staff and lawmakers were evacuated, this was a successful de-escalation. (This [well, 'taking' the parliament] happened in Germany, too, and no-one was talking about it anymore days later because nothing really happened.)

It is unfortunate though, that this strategy is only seemingly applied to white people.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#394

Post by slg » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

These people who are storming the capital are doing it on the back of a lie, that Trump won the election. That is a lie that is perpetuated by numerous forms of alternative media. How is this the result of an erosion of free speech? If free speech was eroded, these alternative media sources wouldn't be able to incite violence with their lies. Your analysis doesn't make any sense.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#395

Post by g42gregory » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

sugarpile wrote: post #360

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The internet allows for mass influence of the population by third party actors. This is largely China vs Russia. I have trouble not playing this out at scale and drawing the conclusion the internet inherently invalidates a lot of the assumptions democracy (as in the American Experiment™ version of it) requires to function. I hope I'm wrong and overly pessimistic.

> This is largely China vs Russia.

I would like to question this a bit. If this were true, wouldn't this mean that China won this time since Biden is the President (vs Russia won in 2016 since Trump was the President)?

I think there are a lot more internal actors, such as special interest groups, PACs, activist groups, etc..., that may dwarf the external influence. There is so much money involved in politics and elections. I wonder how can we curtail the flow of money to make things more civil in politics?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#396

Post by jMyles » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I haven't had confidence in most elections in a long time. Nothing seems worse about this election than, say, Ohio in 2004, but I like the idea of adopting a system where there is much more thorough verifiability and ease of auditing.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#397

Post by asdff » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #203

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

As this is HN, I really believe that this lack of a shared reality is only possible with the Internet. Before the Internet, there were more conservative sources and more liberal sources, but never before could you completely surround yourself with your own version of reality. And more importantly, your version of reality is constantly reinforced by algorithms that are specifically designed to raise your level of rage…

All the stuff you hear about today has been around before the internet too. AM radio was the home of these lunatics before (still is).

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#398

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#399

Post by tartoran » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

hertzrat wrote: post #260

Trump is a bad and scary man, but one of the only good things he's done is post this tweet: "I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!"

After he instigated his constituents? Seems to me he's only covering for his ass. Trump is a master gas-lighter, his statements are contradictory with each-other (when he does make any sense) and has so many of them, he jumps around topics and he talks and talks and talks. He's really tiring person to listen to. I bet his supporters don't really understand anything anyway.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#400

Post by ako » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #295

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The people do it to themselves. They believe what they want to believe, hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see. This is still largely a free country where there are multiple independent sources of "news", and individuals voluntarily expose themselves or not to whatever they choose. As far as I know, nobody is tied down in a chair and forced to watch certain TV shows or listen to certain radio shows fo…

Agree that this is nothing new. Manipulation of people through misinformation has been the rule for a long time. What do you think religion is? Manipulation of people through misinformation to coerce people into behavior which benefits society.