Matomo: Open-source analytics platform • Hacker News Board

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#71

Post by iamacyborg » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

nagbava wrote: post #69

iamacyborg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can be used without requiring to collect the user's consent (since Matomo doesn't use the data for its own purpose) This is not how the GDPR works. If you are collecting personal data, or if you are dropping analytics cookies on someone's device, you need consent. No ifs or buts.

You should apply to the CNIL since you seem to know GDPR better than they do. ( https://www.cnil.fr/fr/cookies-solutions-pour-les-outils-de-... ) I never said no personal data were collected but, if configure properly , the processing of data falls within the legitimate interest basis.

I believe that page may be out of date, or they've updated their github repo prematurely.

https://github.com/LINCnil/Guide-RGPD-du-developpeur/commit/...

/edit Ignore me. I appear to have misunderstood the changes when I last read this. Sorry

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#72

Post by johnchristopher » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

Galanwe wrote: post #14

As a non-web developper, I always wondered: Are these alternatives fully able to replace Google analytics? I sort of thought Google analytics would tell you more about your visitors since with Google cookies, they could map them to other visited websites, centers of interest, age group, etc. Are you loosing all that when switching to a less intrusive analytics platform such as this, or is Google analytics not leverag…

The real kick is when you link both google ads and google analytics https://blog.littledata.io/2019/02/25/why-link-google-ads-ad...

Something you can't do when leaving google land.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#73

Post by nagbava » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

nagbava wrote: post #69

iamacyborg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can be used without requiring to collect the user's consent (since Matomo doesn't use the data for its own purpose) This is not how the GDPR works. If you are collecting personal data, or if you are dropping analytics cookies on someone's device, you need consent. No ifs or buts.

You should apply to the CNIL since you seem to know GDPR better than they do. ( https://www.cnil.fr/fr/cookies-solutions-pour-les-outils-de-... ) I never said no personal data were collected but, if configure properly , the processing of data falls within the legitimate interest basis.

It is true that an opt-out system must be installed on the website (Matomo gives that piece of code) but - as noted on the github link you posted - that very is different from an opt-in system (which is the standard GDPR requirement).

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#74

Post by XCSme » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

marvinblum wrote: post #46

XCSme wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What information exactly does GA tell you from stalking people across the web? I don't think Google sharing with you accurate information about the people visiting other websites would be completely legal (GDPR). Where exactly do you find this information in the dashboard?

Even if they don't share it with you, they do it for themselves.

Yes, that was my point, probably they get this data for themselves and improving their own services but as a webmaster you don't get all this data yourself.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#75

Post by vntok » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

lightswitch05 wrote: post #70

l1am0 wrote: post #62

I use Matomo for years now and it works quite reliably. (A few updates failed the automatic update, but nothing serious) Only thing that bothered me is that most Ad Blockers are blocking Matomo as well. I did build a little Script to circumvent that, you might find it handy as well: https://gumroad.com/l/matomo_circumvent_adblock I use it on my website. Check if your ad blocker is capable of blocking it: https://simo…

Its pretty disgusting to track people against their consent, even more so to circumvent their protections against tracking. I added your domain to my blocklist: https://github.com/lightswitch05/hosts/commit/bb2cd77c9ec028...

It's pretty disgusting to access creators' content for free while blocking their attempts to monetize it.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#76

Post by lmkg » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

nagbava wrote: post #73

nagbava wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should apply to the CNIL since you seem to know GDPR better than they do. ( https://www.cnil.fr/fr/cookies-solutions-pour-les-outils-de-... ) I never said no personal data were collected but, if configure properly , the processing of data falls within the legitimate interest basis.

It is true that an opt-out system must be installed on the website (Matomo gives that piece of code) but - as noted on the github link you posted - that very is different from an opt-in system (which is the standard GDPR requirement).

GDPR does not require consent. If you use consent, then it must be freely-given, but can often use a different legal basis when processing personal data.

The ePrivacy Directive requires consent for reading or writing from a terminal device. This includes anything with cookies, even if they're not personal data. While the ePD refers to GDPR for its definition of consent, it is a separate piece of legislation and many things that are true about GDPR are not true about ePD (such as being able to invoke Legitimate Interest instead of consent).

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#77

Post by samjmck » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

lightswitch05 wrote: post #70

l1am0 wrote: post #62

I use Matomo for years now and it works quite reliably. (A few updates failed the automatic update, but nothing serious) Only thing that bothered me is that most Ad Blockers are blocking Matomo as well. I did build a little Script to circumvent that, you might find it handy as well: https://gumroad.com/l/matomo_circumvent_adblock I use it on my website. Check if your ad blocker is capable of blocking it: https://simo…

Its pretty disgusting to track people against their consent, even more so to circumvent their protections against tracking. I added your domain to my blocklist: https://github.com/lightswitch05/hosts/commit/bb2cd77c9ec028...

Ad blocking != block tracking. If you don’t want to get tracked, turn on Do Not Track in your browser. Matomo and most other privacy focused analytics scripts respect that setting.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#78

Post by XCSme » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

ffpip wrote: post #57

XCSme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! userTrack was never free, but I did change the pricing model from lifetime, to yearly to now being one-time payment + yearly payments for updates. I would love to make userTrack free if I can find a sustainable way to work on it. Most other similar open-source software offers a "hosted" version to get revenue, but my goal is to promote decentralization and self-hosting in general, so me focusing on the hos…

> userTrack was never free... Sorry if it seemed like I was complaining about the pricing change. I was just wondering whether I remembered it correctly from here ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24207129 ) It's a great product. People will pay for it.

No worries, I was just making the history of the pricing structure clear.

Thank you for the kind words, I do love working on this project and I hope to be able to continue working on it. Existing customers absolutely love it and keep recommending but I am still struggling with finding a pricing structure that makes sense for everyone.

I do hope that one day I will find a way to make userTrack free for everyone, but looking at Matomo, making it open-source seems to drastically slow the development of a project as there are so many people involved and so much more decisions to be taken. Apart from that I would still have to earn a living somehow, but if I get a job and keep userTrack open-source I won't be able to spend too much energy on maintaining it and I hate not being able to make a product as good as it can be.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#79

Post by vntok » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

l1am0 wrote: post #62

I use Matomo for years now and it works quite reliably. (A few updates failed the automatic update, but nothing serious) Only thing that bothered me is that most Ad Blockers are blocking Matomo as well. I did build a little Script to circumvent that, you might find it handy as well: https://gumroad.com/l/matomo_circumvent_adblock I use it on my website. Check if your ad blocker is capable of blocking it: https://simo…

Unfortunately your script still calls a third party domain, which is trivial to block using a generic AdBlock/uBlock rule. Instead, you should host the matomo script (under a different filename of course) on your own domain. That way it won't be as easily blocked.

I go as far as to send all the tracking parameters through a custom server script before they are proxied to GA and Matomo. That way, I can change the script and parameter names at will, making them much more difficult to block. For example, Matomo-related blocking rules are as follows:

/matomo-tracking.

/matomo.js$domain=~github.com

/matomo.php

/matomo/$domain=~github.com|~matomo.org|~wordpress.org

/piwik-$domain=~github.com|~matomo.org|~piwik.org|~piwik.pro|piwikpro.de

/piwik.$image,script,domain=~matomo.org|~piwik.org|~piwik.pro|piwikpro.de

/piwik./ping?

/piwik.js

/piwik.php

/piwik/*$domain=~github.com|~matomo.org|~piwik.org|~piwik.pro

/piwik1.

/piwik2.js

/piwik_

/piwikapi.js

/piwikC_

/piwikTracker.

Re: Matomo: Open-source analytics platform

#80

Post by lightswitch05 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

samjmck wrote: post #77

lightswitch05 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty disgusting to track people against their consent, even more so to circumvent their protections against tracking. I added your domain to my blocklist: https://github.com/lightswitch05/hosts/commit/bb2cd77c9ec028...

Ad blocking != block tracking. If you don’t want to get tracked, turn on Do Not Track in your browser. Matomo and most other privacy focused analytics scripts respect that setting.

While I agree that is the proper solution, most analytics do not respect the Do Not Track header. Beyond it being mostly ignored, Safari (which currently has 20% global browser share) removed support for Do Not Track in 12.1. So even though Matomo might respect the header request, there is no way for me to send that header on many of my devices. Blocking is the only solution left to me to 'opt out' of tracking regardless of the good intentions of Matomo.