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Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

reuters.com

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Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#51

Post by rorykoehler »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #28
robertlagrant wrote: post #15

> The chips also operate on the assumption that future software will involve programmers giving high-level directions while artificially intelligent computers write much of the nitty gritty code required to implement those human ideas. I can't wait to stop writing machine code.

It'll turn more like trying to teach someone to do a trick, with all the misunderstandings and frustrations to boot. Mind you, that same thing is now done to software devs, that is, product manager tries to explain what they want, designers and devs interpret in a certain way.

It's just another layer (or two) of abstraction. Like the jump from machine code to something like Ruby.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#52

Post by rorykoehler »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #25
vnorilo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody does that stuff alone. I think a more accurate description would be that he seems to be a force multiplier for the team he leads, which can have a bigger impact than any singular engineering feat.

He played a large role in Apple’s ARM SoCs and in AMD’s Zen, possibly the largest role of any individual. Keller can move the entire market if he’s given enough space and resources. 10,000x is closer to him than 10x.

If there are only a handful of people capable of doing this or even just one then 10x or 10000x doesn't make sense because that is a productivity metric. 10000 normal engineers wouldn't be able to do it just like 10 juniors can't do the job of one senior.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#54

Post by PaulHoule »

dr_faustus wrote: post #17

I often find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference in such intricate problem domains as chip design but in his case the evidence is overwhelming. Also goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. I think in the CPU space it will be all ARM and RISC ten years from now and since Intel never really managed to become a dominant player in any…

Worse than that I wonder if the trouble at Intel (e.g. inability to develop post 14nm chips plus one insane instruction set extension after another -- I wonder if the point of AMX is to have a big die area that is mostly unused that doesn't need to be cooled) isn't something that people like him are running from but rather something they are going to bring with then wherever they wind up.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#55

Post by ahmedalsudani »

rorykoehler wrote: post #52
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He played a large role in Apple’s ARM SoCs and in AMD’s Zen, possibly the largest role of any individual. Keller can move the entire market if he’s given enough space and resources. 10,000x is closer to him than 10x.

If there are only a handful of people capable of doing this or even just one then 10x or 10000x doesn't make sense because that is a productivity metric. 10000 normal engineers wouldn't be able to do it just like 10 juniors can't do the job of one senior.

IMHO, the correct way to look at it is to compare impact/results.

A 10x engineer might not get 10x done, but their work will be 10x better in a combination of ways: quality, maintainability, speed, portability, extendability, etc. Hopefully the ways in which their work is better fits the priorities of the organization.

That’s the only way you can really call someone an N-xer compared to a productive individual contributor.

Someone like Jim Keller is a big multiplier at a higher level. People today understand the value an executive like Steve Jobs brings, but usually there’s debate on the value before it becomes clear a few years later.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#56

Post by ghaff »

PaulHoule wrote: post #54
dr_faustus wrote: post #17

I often find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference in such intricate problem domains as chip design but in his case the evidence is overwhelming. Also goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. I think in the CPU space it will be all ARM and RISC ten years from now and since Intel never really managed to become a dominant player in any…

Worse than that I wonder if the trouble at Intel (e.g. inability to develop post 14nm chips plus one insane instruction set extension after another -- I wonder if the point of AMX is to have a big die area that is mostly unused that doesn't need to be cooled) isn't something that people like him are running from but rather something they are going to bring with then wherever they wind up.

>one insane instruction set extension after another

You're probably going to see a whole lot more of this sort of thing given the limits to process scaling. Keeping things simple and backwardly compatible made sense when you could just throw more transistors at the problem. Now you're seeing more and more specialized circuitry that software people are just going to have to deal with.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#57

Post by ethbr0 »

mrweasel wrote: post #44
dr_faustus wrote: post #17

I often find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference in such intricate problem domains as chip design but in his case the evidence is overwhelming. Also goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. I think in the CPU space it will be all ARM and RISC ten years from now and since Intel never really managed to become a dominant player in any…

Part of it may also be the situation the company is in, and it' mindset, when Keller is hired. There's no arguing that Keller is a smart guy, but he doesn't design an entire CPU architecture himself. If you're desperate and say "Okay, we are hiring the smartest guy we can find to build our new CPU, and give everything he needs to make it happen", then perhaps you get the AMD64, Zen or the A4 and A5. If you try to jus…

One of the tendencies of shrinking companies is exacerbated executive infighting.

If the company is growing, there are new X-of-Y positions to move up to.

If the company is stable or shrinking, people start watching out for their own careers with knives out.

AMD possibly avoided this because of size & realization of what needed to be done. Intel's too big & old: I would be very surprised if they weren't much more internally resistant to that sort of change.

And one can only deal with your colleagues throwing up brick wall after brick wall on every bit of minutiae for so long, as least if you're talented enough to have other options.

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#58

Post by wyldfire »

dr_faustus wrote: post #17

I often find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference in such intricate problem domains as chip design but in his case the evidence is overwhelming. Also goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. I think in the CPU space it will be all ARM and RISC ten years from now and since Intel never really managed to become a dominant player in any…

> find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference ... goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship.

These statements almost seem contradictory. What if instead of "not being able to right that ship", it is instead an example to the contrary?

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#59

Post by [deleted] »

wyldfire wrote: post #58
dr_faustus wrote: post #17

I often find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference in such intricate problem domains as chip design but in his case the evidence is overwhelming. Also goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. I think in the CPU space it will be all ARM and RISC ten years from now and since Intel never really managed to become a dominant player in any…

> find it hard to believe that a single person can make much of a difference ... goes to show what a shit show Intel has become since even he was not able to right that ship. These statements almost seem contradictory. What if instead of "not being able to right that ship", it is instead an example to the contrary?

[deleted]

Re: Jim Keller moves to AI chip startup

#60

Post by olau »

eric_khun wrote: post #50
gregorygoc wrote: post #33

Has anybody on HN worked with him and could say a little bit more about his individual contributions and management style?

You can have a sense of how it would be to work with him in this interview with Lex Fridman[1]. I'm also curious how it would be to work with him since it sounds like he is full of himself[3]. But he I believe he has the right for it since all what he has achieved[3]. The guy also read couple books a week[4] for last decades [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb2tebYAaOA [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb2tebYAa…

I watched that interview half a year ago, and came away with the impression of a curious humble guy who was interested in digging deep below the surface and working on big advances.

I think you meant to refer to [2], and that part of the interview is Lex Fridman interjecting him when he was trying to make a deep point about how to think about things.

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