US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients • Hacker News Board

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#181

Post by rvx80 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

fraggle_sock wrote: post #83

wvenable wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some treatments are so expensive and/or niche that public programs likely wouldn't cover them. I have co-worker with a very unique disease with a very niche and very expensive treatment and here in Canada it's free. The whole point of public health care is that the cost is spread among everyone -- the young, the healthy, the old, the very sick.

This spreading of cost amongst the whole of society should really be the norm rather than the exception, particuarly for all the other essentials of human existence and dignity. For example, here in the UK we have a growing network of food banks who have stepped in to fill the needs of the many people who are in dire financial straits (and not just because of the pandemic - their use has been rising rapidly for the p…

[flagged]

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#182

Post by amaccuish » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:42 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #166

gambiting wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he…

The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthc…

American exceptionalism at its finest

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#183

Post by j4yav » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:47 AM UTC

alphabettsy wrote: post #28

shakezula wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even if you can contest the denial, it can take days to months to get it back, meanwhile you’re shouldered with the burden of paying full price for your treatment with the _hope_ that they’ll reimburse you later. My fiancée has cancer, and we regularly joke that dealing with insurance companies is worse than the actual stage 3 cancer she has. They constantly deny her coverage for medications she’s been on for yea…

It’s intentional. They save billions using this practice because some people don’t have the time, knowledge or resources to dispute.

Presumably also if they can drive up stress of patients more of them will die more quickly and they will have to pay less.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#184

Post by watwut » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

inter_netuser wrote: post #149

arcticbull wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It varies from province to province [0]. What you're saying is true in some provinces but not all. However, even in the provinces without material barriers, no private sector exists. The article actually provides some solid theories. Your information about MRI waiting times isn't accurate in general - or rather paints only part of the picture. Even with the COVID situation happening now, in Ontario... Patients who sh…

Canadian healthcare is horrible. "Out of 11 countries, Canada was ranked ninth for health care, placing just above France and the United States." https://www.kelownanow.com/news/news/National_News/Canada_ra... "217,500 Canadians left the country for health care in 2017, according to Statistics Canada. If those travelling with the patients are included in the count, the total rises to 369,700 people." https://torontos…

In your link, US is even lower. So if someone praises Canadian system in comparison to US one, it is still correct.

It is absurd to show link that ranks Canada higher then US despite having problems and then proceed to ... call US the best. Also, Americans near border travel to Canada to buy drugs pretty routinely despite it being illegal.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#185

Post by allendoerfer » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

undecisive wrote: post #161

yladiz wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. Let’s not turn this into whataboutery. This isn’t about other countries doing things poorly, and more specifically Germany was not named by the parent commenter. This is about the US doing things significantly worse than basically any other developed country. I live in Germany, and know that the German healthcare system is not perfect, but I also know, as an American, that it is significantly better by essent…

I think all systems have their downsides. In the UK for example, we've started doing citizenship checks for anyone who looks remotely like a foreigner, which to my mind is perverse and unnecessary, and part of a governmental preoccupation with trying to become as racist as possible via the back-door. (essentially, if we can blame the foreigners, we can absolve the government) However, I think we can still say "Americ…

The rest of the developed world, especially Switzerland, also has to thank the US for single-handedly ensuring the profits for its pharmaceutical industry.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#186

Post by jmiserez » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #169

jmiserez wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, minimizing disability-adjusted life years lost. Of course it's not perfect and making this the the only criterium would be morally wrong, but it's definitely more fair than going by bank accounts. Quote ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability-adjusted_life_year ): > The methodology is not an economic measure. It measures how much healthy life is lost. It does not assign a monetary value to any person or c…

I see a decent argument that, but that is basically inverting someone's access to healthcare with the amount of time they've put into their community. It is much easier for old people to look back on a lifetime of doing good than young people, but prioritising healthcare to young people minimises DALY lost. It also penalises people who are sick with serious diseases, as giving them more healthcare would have less imp…

I don't think lying has much of an effect, the main thing that counts for "potential future" is being alive / able to "live".

IIRC the metric is routinely used when evaluating new treatments, measuring their associated cost in $/DALY helps comparing and price negotiations.

If things are really tight (think war, poverty, pandemic, etc) I think at least it can be fair and effective. One can't live forever, and IMHO prioritizing younger people for medical care is widely accepted. Of course there needs to be a few humans in the loop as it's just a statistic and there are no guarantees.

And obviously a cold soulless robot AI optimizing for it would be insane, but that goes for most metrics.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#187

Post by arethuza » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

fraggle_sock wrote: post #83

wvenable wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some treatments are so expensive and/or niche that public programs likely wouldn't cover them. I have co-worker with a very unique disease with a very niche and very expensive treatment and here in Canada it's free. The whole point of public health care is that the cost is spread among everyone -- the young, the healthy, the old, the very sick.

This spreading of cost amongst the whole of society should really be the norm rather than the exception, particuarly for all the other essentials of human existence and dignity. For example, here in the UK we have a growing network of food banks who have stepped in to fill the needs of the many people who are in dire financial straits (and not just because of the pandemic - their use has been rising rapidly for the p…

I'm appalled that we have come to the point where we need food banks for people here in the UK - they were practically unheard of before 2008 and the subsequent "austerity".

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#188

Post by dusted » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

Areading314 wrote: post #11

One of the most unfair characteristics of US healthcare is that if the health insurance company does not cover a claim, then the patient is responsible for the payment. It is unrealistic in practice for a patient to know or understand the process by which claims are made (since they are made by an error prone and disinterested provider administrator, and are made in a non-transparent and highly complex way), and also…

And here my "socialist" ass was thinking the most unfair characteristic of the US "healthcare system" was that not all citizens have the basic right to the same, best-effort treatment.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#189

Post by tehwebguy » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 12:00 PM UTC

gnopgnip wrote: post #167

Areading314 wrote: post #11

One of the most unfair characteristics of US healthcare is that if the health insurance company does not cover a claim, then the patient is responsible for the payment. It is unrealistic in practice for a patient to know or understand the process by which claims are made (since they are made by an error prone and disinterested provider administrator, and are made in a non-transparent and highly complex way), and also…

If you are at an in network provider, the provider is required to accept the insurance negotiated rate and not pursue the patient. If your insurance denies the bill, the provider can't pursue the patient. In many states surprise billing and balance billing laws prevent out of network providers from billing you for the balance, in excess of what medicare or your insurance pays.

Those laws do not prevent it from happening, they just offer a small stick for anyone getting screwed to attempt to use in court.

Meanwhile your insurance company can just wait for you to die while you try to hash it out.

Plus, every calendar year that passes while you’re desperately trying to get them to cover services is another shot at them avoiding any responsibility for the next service you need.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#190

Post by gambiting » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 12:02 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #166

gambiting wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he…

The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthc…

>>Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained.

Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse?

And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have.

>>I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US.

I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages.