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Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

arstechnica.com

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Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#291

Post by buran77 »

newen wrote: post #58
buran77 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While superficially a good idea, it would probably punish shareholders more than the actual perpetrators and would most likely lead to a far lower performing company, so a weaker economy. How many state run companies do you know are performing great? Tesla may do any number of shady or illegal things but without Musk and his vested interest in the company it would probably be a footnote in some corporate obituary.

Why? It’s not like shareholders are the ones doing the work inside the company.

Not sure "why what" but I made 2 points:

- The shareholders shouldn't necessarily be held responsible because most have no input or knowledge when it comes to any shady business.

- The company would perform worse because without the drive for profit (and whatever gray means they use to achieve them) that most private entrepreneurs have, the company would almost definitely perform worse. Privatized companies usually run better because the state might be a good minority shareholder but not the best when it comes to driving a company.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#292

Post by orhmeh09 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #270
Larrikin wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same argument that tech corporations say should apply to them. They should be allowed to grow uncontrollably to make as much money as possible but it's actually impossible for them to know the details (moderate content in this specific iteration of the argument) of what they have grown. The point of this thread is the same argument against that very idea. If the organization is so big that the CEO believe…

But you can't know all of that. Imagine some local wallmart having an issue with something (eg. a bunch of expired chemicals, that have to be disposed as dengerous), and they don't want to deal with that in a proper way, and some local manager tells some local worker, to just dump the chemicals into a stream behind the wallmart. Usually noone notices stuff like that, if the chemicals are not "too bad" (=fish die), th…

It is the duty of the CEO to demand the types of observability, monitoring, and training so that this scenario could be avoided.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#294

Post by modo_mario »

ryanlol wrote: post #288
akudha wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is news like this that makes me want to go back to puppy videos on YouTube. In what universe 35 years in prison can be justified for Aaron’s alleged crime?

Not in this universe anyway, nothing close to 35 years was ever on the table. To suggest otherwise is deliberate disinformation. The prosecutors had offered Aaron 6 months , he could’ve got less.

>Not in this universe anyway, nothing close to 35 years was ever on the table. To suggest otherwise is deliberate disinformation.

The prosecutors office was working to pile on even more charges for a theoretical max of 50 years. The offer was a plea deal which the prosecutor thought was an appropriate sentence yet she hounded him with as many charges as possible anyway guaranteeing him years in jail if he did not accept and waive the constitutional rights he'd have during a trial. He declined and his counter offer was rejected.

This illustrates how it is a legal fiction that plea bargaining is a voluntary negotiation between the prosecutor and defendant

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#295

Post by varispeed »

superfrank wrote: post #248
m463 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a business model.

It basically is a business model for dating sites. Get big enough to be annoying and then wait for Match Group to make an offer. Match Group owns Tinder, Match.com, OkCupid, Hinge, and PlentyOfFish as well as a metric fuck ton of niche sites.

This seems like a huge gaping loophole in capitalism. I think companies should be disallowed to buy competing companies (even via proxy) and companies beyond certain threshold should by law be divided into smaller companies.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#296

Post by learnstats2 »

Spivak wrote: post #187
eropple wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is to not make it an affordable option, no matter how rich you are. The only thing the sufficiently rich can't call-and-raise you on is time. Fictional sums of money, sums that may be less than likely to ever really be paid, are more easily reckoned with than jail time.

Still not a great system unfortunately. Time based punishments still disproportionately punish the poor who have less of it. Suffering based punishments hurt everyone equally, they don’t waste a person’s time they could be contributing something positive to the world and can be scaled to fit the crime. One hell of a deterrent too.

> One hell of a deterrent too.

Psychology says no.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#297

Post by CRConrad »

Chris2048 wrote: post #263
harry8 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For criminal behaviour from the organisation, the burden of proof needs to be reversed. The CEO should need to prove they did not know and did not endorse tacitally or otherwise and would have reacted strongly to prevent and effectively sanction those responsible if they had found out in advance. It's their job to know. Only if they are a victim of a genuine criminal conspiracy performed by other employees and it can…

I don't think CEO is the right level. It may be the top position with high pay, but a CEO is so high up the food-chain that they touch very little. Any level of management with a direct responsibility is where blame should lie.

> I don't think CEO is the right level. It may be the top position with high pay, but a CEO is so high up the food-chain that they touch very little.

Funny then how the CEO is the right level to take that high pay, which is generally defended as compensation for the ultimate responsibility.

Either the CEO is responsible for what happens under his reign, or he isn't. If he is, why shouldn't he shoulder the blame for the bad parts; if he isn't, why should he be paid for the good parts?

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#298

Post by tim333 »

varispeed wrote: post #295
superfrank wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It basically is a business model for dating sites. Get big enough to be annoying and then wait for Match Group to make an offer. Match Group owns Tinder, Match.com, OkCupid, Hinge, and PlentyOfFish as well as a metric fuck ton of niche sites.

This seems like a huge gaping loophole in capitalism. I think companies should be disallowed to buy competing companies (even via proxy) and companies beyond certain threshold should by law be divided into smaller companies.

It's been noted. It's what the

> The Monopolies and Restrictive Practices Commission was set up on 1 January 1949

was for, now the Competition Commission. How well that works is debatable.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#299

Post by CRConrad »

adventured wrote: post #277
bitcharmer wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not leftist and I haven't observed any strong bias here. HN crowd is leftist only by US standards but then US is a country where most people think public health care is communism.

~42%-45% of the US population is in Medicaid, Medicare or other government healthcare solutions. It's very clear that most people in the US do not think socialized / public healthcare is tantamount to Communism. The US is left leaning compared to the majority of all nations. Besides that, the US is far more progressive than eg Europe in many respects (and that's ignoring parts of Europe still ruled by actual fascism…

> [T]he US is far more progressive than eg Europe...

This post is the craziest collection of misconceptions and outright untruths I've read in... A very, very long time.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#300

Post by ryanlol »

modo_mario wrote: post #294
ryanlol wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in this universe anyway, nothing close to 35 years was ever on the table. To suggest otherwise is deliberate disinformation. The prosecutors had offered Aaron 6 months , he could’ve got less.

>Not in this universe anyway, nothing close to 35 years was ever on the table. To suggest otherwise is deliberate disinformation. The prosecutors office was working to pile on even more charges for a theoretical max of 50 years. The offer was a plea deal which the prosecutor thought was an appropriate sentence yet she hounded him with as many charges as possible anyway guaranteeing him years in jail if he did not acc…

> The prosecutors office was working to pile on even more charges for a theoretical max of 50 years

The theoretical maximum is utterly irrelevant.

> guaranteeing him years in jail if he did not accept

So you acknowledge that he definitely did violate the law, no? Sounds like the prosecutor was very generous with their plea deal offers.

“According to Swartz’s lawyers, the prosecutors in the case offered two different pleas. First, they would agree to a sentence of four months if Swartz agreed to plead guilty to the felonies. And second, they could agree to a deal in which Swartz agreed to plead guilty, the government would argue for a 6 month sentence, and Swartz could argue for a lesser sentence (presumably including probation). In all likelihood, the judge would have then sentenced Swartz to 4 months under the 1st plea and whatever the judge thought appropriate, up to 6 months, under the second plea.”

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