US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients • Hacker News Board

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#101

Post by gorgoiler » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

e_y_ wrote: post #87

amitport wrote: post #24

Why is this an article? People and organizations (even banks) and governments erase debt all the time. Sometimes it's from kindness, sometimes for PR, usually because they're unable to collect it. You can't really tell the difference among the cases.

John Oliver's Last Week Tonight bought and forgave $15M of medical debt for $60k (probably deemed uncollectible) as part of a segment about the debt collection industry. And because on paper it was a bigger giveaway than Oprah's "Everybody gets a car" giveaway.

Can you buy your own debt?

I assume you can’t actually buy your own debt, only buy debts in aggregate. How can a creditor have any moral claim to $1 when the note traded for 4¢?

Does this give me an incentive to purposefully wait until the debt collectors show up, and then offer them 5¢?

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#102

Post by hippich » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:07 AM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #58

Pfhreak wrote: post #16

This is a prime example of a feel good story that is papering over systemic problems. We're meant to read this and think this doctor is a good person (and they are, at least for this act) rather than, "how is it possible there was this much medical debt for cancer treatment to forgive?" Yes, debt forgiveness is great and something we can all do as mutual aid, but we also need to acknowledge that the deeply flawed ide…

> the deeply flawed idea that healthcare should be a "marketplace" It should be a marketplace. instead, it's a racket.

And an insurance should be, well, an insurance. What is referred as "health insurance" is more like "health care plans" (insurers even call it "plans"). Just consider how comprehensive auto insurance is different from health insurance in practice.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#103

Post by nr2x » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #37

Anon1096 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't correct in the UK under NHS. There's a set amount NHS is willing to pay for drugs and treatment, and beyond that, it's refused altogether. You'd have to go elsewhere and on your own dime for expensive treatments. Here's a link from the BBC I quickly found but it's widely documented: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924

The QALY metric they mention is exactly what I had in mind, actually, very cool. Wealth won't get you better care, or faster care, or different in the NHS. That's the point I was making, and your article supports that position. > "You'd have to go elsewhere and on your own dime for expensive treatments." [In a single payer system there's nowhere else to go.] (retracted)

As somebody who paid significant fees out of pocket to see NHS physician in private capacity that is very, very false.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#104

Post by refurb » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #72

fraggle_sock wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally though, all private healthcare would be banned. Aside from ideological concerns about not giving the wealthy an unfair advantage, this has pragmatic benefit in ensuring that the public healthcare system is up to standard. That is, if the wealthy and powerful are forced to use it too, it means they have skin in the game and won't just use their power to run it into the ground in pursuit of profit or from lack…

Interestingly, private healthcare isn't banned in Canada but in in reality, there's virtually none of it. The system is designed so that the public sector doesn't subsidize a potential private sector, and without those subsidies, nobody's interested. Personally, I agree with you. Private healthcare should be abolished entirely.

Disagree on private healthcare being abolished. If people want to spend their own money outside the single payer system, why not let them? It doesn't absolve them of contributing to the public system, so the public system benefits when they decide to go outside it.

And in Canada, there isn't much private healthcare because of the way Medicare is set up. A doctor has to choose - practice in the public system or the private system - they can't do both.

As a result, you have a handful of doctors who do private with the majority in the public system. For certain procedures there is actually a lot of private healthcare in Canada. Take a look at MRI's. Instead of waiting 2 or 3 months for an MRI you can pay $300 and get one this week and send the results to your doctor.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#105

Post by chordalkeyboard » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

_gohp wrote: post #77

The bbc tries to appear neutral they will often avoid telling the origins of people , for good or bad deeds. Very kind of this doctor but this should never happen in the first place. Probably will not happen in my life time but the US should simply implement a health care system the well developed EU nations. Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of sco…

> Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of scope for the vast majority of people. I had a US friend who was a low digits millionaire and a renal failure. He ended up losing all the money for medication and eventually his life. Now compare that to a low or no income person. Medical aid should not be granted put of pity or mercy in this age.

sickness and death is/are terrible but for much of human history we have had to accept them. now people can live but then have to repay the advanced technology medical complex that saved them with corresponding functional labor and you think it's a bug? its measured in tens of thousands of dollars but maybe 1) its worth that much or 2) it costs that much because of all the freeloaders (not sure what value-neutral term you want me to use for people who consume healthcare but don't pay for it) that have to be paid for. likely both are somewhat true. I'm sorry your friend died. Do you think his loss would be any less traumatic if he had been provided a government healthcare system access where one day he just wasn't "worth" the medicine it would take to treat him? Surely you understand that all systems involve rationing scarce resources and its reasonable for at least some people to use markets because of their proven success at rewarding commodification of value.

> All the capitalism and its ceremony is fine, but without a healthy body or society, who will generate that wealth?

Our perspective is that capitalism is the medicine that society needs and has not tried. Surely you agree that regulations proliferate and people are fat, sick, unhealthy, and exploited.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#106

Post by Chris2048 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

fraggle_sock wrote: post #57

starpilot wrote: post #3

He has done more good than legions of software engineers who make multiples of his income.

Let's not devalue any one person's job or contribution. However, inequality of pay is real and it's a massive disparity that must be addressed. Another way of looking at it: the persons who clean the hospital are equally as valuable to the organisation as the doctors and nurses are. Without medical care, patients suffer and die. With an unclean hospital, patients suffer and die. Everyone should be paid roughly the sa…

> With an unclean hospital, patients suffer and die.

I'm not a fan of this logic. Should water cost more b/c without it you'd die? Value is roughly determined by supply/demand, risk/reward. Doctors/nurses are more valuable than cleaners because they are harder to train, give function to the hospital in the first place (who cares to clean a hospital without any staff that no-one goes to), and you can consult with a doctor just as well in a dirty room.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#107

Post by ant6n » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

rangibaby wrote: post #55

tlrobinson wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there services that will handle this nonsense for you?

In rich countries outside of the US it’s called “the government”

Other countries are slipping, though. For example, Germany does not actually have a single-payer system, but instead a "system" of public and private health insurance companies. As an employee you`re usually in the public system, which can be more expensive for higher-earners because the fees are based on your income (although the health taxes are regressive, capped above like 65K income per year). Self-employed people are often in the private system, and higher income earners can also opt into the private system.

The problem is you can´t easily opt back into the public system once you´re out (especially once you´re old), so there are tens of thousands (if not hundreds), that get stuck in the private system without being able to pay the fees because they´ve become poor (possibly because of health reasons), and then they get denied coverage and thus access to medical services.

Immigrants can fall through the cracks in the over-complicated system as well.

The problem is not as insane as in the US, happens "at the fringes", but it still affects thousands and is mostly outside of the perception of society, since everybody just assumes they got the best system in the world.

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#108

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #96

jjeaff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but I believe one of the few metrics that the US outperforms in is cancer survival. I have heard that there are quite a few wealthy people (even from places like canada and the uk) that come here for cancer treatments that are not provided in their country because the public health system will not pay for them.

That's a funky one, and I'll be the first to say that America does have some very good cancer treatment clinics if you don't mind bankruptcy (although the same is true if you break your leg). Part of that has to do with how cancer survival rates are measured and what role screening has in the various systems. This came up with Giuliani a while ago and is well described here [1]. tldr: The statistics are quite mislead…

[deleted]

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#109

Post by refurb » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #96

jjeaff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but I believe one of the few metrics that the US outperforms in is cancer survival. I have heard that there are quite a few wealthy people (even from places like canada and the uk) that come here for cancer treatments that are not provided in their country because the public health system will not pay for them.

That's a funky one, and I'll be the first to say that America does have some very good cancer treatment clinics if you don't mind bankruptcy (although the same is true if you break your leg). Part of that has to do with how cancer survival rates are measured and what role screening has in the various systems. This came up with Giuliani a while ago and is well described here [1]. tldr: The statistics are quite mislead…

Here is a good example as to why you might want to go to the US for cancer care.

"It's crazy that I live in Canada, but now I'm looking at having to sell my house for coverage of my medication."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/a-tale-of-2-...

Re: US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

#110

Post by chordalkeyboard » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

gorgoiler wrote: post #101

e_y_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Oliver's Last Week Tonight bought and forgave $15M of medical debt for $60k (probably deemed uncollectible) as part of a segment about the debt collection industry. And because on paper it was a bigger giveaway than Oprah's "Everybody gets a car" giveaway.

Can you buy your own debt? I assume you can’t actually buy your own debt, only buy debts in aggregate. How can a creditor have any moral claim to $1 when the note traded for 4¢? Does this give me an incentive to purposefully wait until the debt collectors show up, and then offer them 5¢?

yeah, you make them an offer. I've negotiated several debts. Its easy, they usually make it clear what they are willing/able to do. I paid one at 30% and one at 50%.