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Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

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Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#71

Post by kinghtown »

m463 wrote: post #63
Finnucane wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that changed for Gene was that he no longer had a day job. When he was working, he'd get up at 5 am to writer for two hours before leaving for work. The whole of the Book of the New Sun was written that way. Which meant there was a certain commercial pressure to sell books, and I think his consistency flagged. I worked at Tor in the mid-to-late 1990s. I don't think that Hartwell just accepted anything he se…

that's interesting. I wonder if the stimulus of a day at work with people and interactions and pressure and more could make something more meaningful come out. Sort of like a little external entropy added to the random number generator.

I think there is some truth to this but I wouldn’t argue to keep a day job as a writer. The vast majority of recording artists are never able to match the music they recorded in their 20’s. I’ve commented on that before here so I won’t get into it further than to say that the world isn’t interested in middle aged musicians which in turn affects the work.

I think someone like Thomas Pynchon shows that an author can very well be producing very good work well into the old age. There are rumours about him being both a professor or exCIA but I’m sure he’s been reasonably well off since the late 70s. While I haven’t read Bleeding Edge, his most recent novel, Inherent Vice is wild and excellent.

Maybe keeping a job keeps a writer honest or at least in the public watching and note taking. But I don’t think this is always true and it would be heartbreaking to take the dream away from everyone about ever becoming a full-time novelist.

I also don’t think making great art is easy. A few family deaths and accumulated illnesses and bad experience can really do a number on people. Not to suggest that this is Wolfe but there are many factors at play.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#72

Post by crossedOaks »

One of my all time favorite authors in literature. The secret to enjoying Gene Wolfe is being ok with fuzziness - he’s notorious for using unreliable narrators. And don’t try too hard to figure it all out at first, just keep going. Eventually the most mysterious, awe inducing visions will enter your mind and often they’ll occur a day or two after you even read it. It’s like your mind needs a bit extra time to compile the sublime code he’s given you. He’s a straight up magician.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#73

Post by Daido_M »

Pamar wrote: post #64
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The podcast and the YouTube videos on Wolfe really make me rue Google's modern algorithm that obscures 1990s and early-millennium content. Pretty much all the mysteries of the BotNS were elucidated on the Gene Wolfe mailing list (which was archived) and a handful of fan websites. It would be much more efficient use of a reader's time to go through these instead of podcasts or videos, which aren't information-dense me…

Could you be kindly offer pointers to the aforementioned archives+fan websites, please?

Could it be this? http://www.urth.net/

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#74

Post by cageface »

saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

I enjoyed Book of the New Sun but I’d say it’s quite a bit darker than most of the rest of the books you’ve named. Torture is a very central theme.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#75

Post by stdgy »

laurex wrote: post #2

The Book of the New Sun is amazing simply for the language. I actually thought he was simply making up words until I got out a dictionary and discovered that his vocabulary simply far surpassed mine, and mine isn't terrible.

That is the thing that has always stuck out to me. The books are a master class on language. And, interestingly, the intricate language added a certain texture to the story that I haven't often encountered elsewhere. It made the story almost... slippery? As though I could see the shape and outline of the story, but the real specifics were left for my mind to fill in.

A bit hard to explain, but not something I've experienced to the same degree outside of Wolfe.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#76

Post by runevault »

markc wrote: post #48

I've read lots of SciFi over the years, some of it challenging. I can read hard books. Back in the 80's I started seeing so many raves for TBotNS that I went out and bought them all at once. About 80 pages into the first one, I was turned off, bored really. They sat on my shelf for a decade at least, before I just gave them away. My question is this: how long did it take you to "get into" this series. Should I have p…

My first read I bounced off of Shadow hard. Second reading I finished and loved it but then life got in the way early into Claw. 2020 was the year I blasted through all 5 books and am glad I did. The book is incredibly dense and does not hide that fact, so you have to be ready for such or you simply won't enjoy it.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#77

Post by karaterobot »

The Solar Cycle is great, but even fewer people have read Peace. I think is a genuine mid-century American literary masterpiece that should be discussed (favorably) alongside with Cheever, Updike, Sherwood Anderson, and Don Delillo. It's his ultimate puzzle box of a book, but incredibly rewarding.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#78

Post by runevault »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #15

I think there are many definitions of High Art here. This Is How You Lose The Time War is something I'd recommend also, to compare and contrast what is considered emotionally vivid, beautiful prose, and challenging literature in science fiction now compared to Gene Wolfe. It's super fascinating to see how some things have changed in its definition of the pinnacle of the art and how others have stayed the same.

While not on GW's level, one of the two writers of TiHyLtTW (Gladstone) is one of my favorite newer authors. I think I ended up liking Empress of Forever more than Time War (both came out in the same year) but both are fucking fantastic.

When he described a star fighter as a hate fractal I admit I cackled.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#79

Post by shmageggy »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #47

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

Where would you say the Long Sun books fit into this? I've always been looking for the great book about generation ships, and I thought they might be it, but I just couldn't get into it. Are they worth revisiting now that I have a better idea what to expect?

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#80

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

kinghtown wrote: post #71
m463 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's interesting. I wonder if the stimulus of a day at work with people and interactions and pressure and more could make something more meaningful come out. Sort of like a little external entropy added to the random number generator.

I think there is some truth to this but I wouldn’t argue to keep a day job as a writer. The vast majority of recording artists are never able to match the music they recorded in their 20’s. I’ve commented on that before here so I won’t get into it further than to say that the world isn’t interested in middle aged musicians which in turn affects the work. I think someone like Thomas Pynchon shows that an author can ve…

Interestingly I think novelists can get better with age, see Ursula le guin or octavia butler. Or even now, jeff vandermeer and nalo hopkinson and nisi shawl.
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