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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#261

Post by cptskippy »

gamblor956 wrote: post #256
cptskippy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was intense demand for the Leaf in California. The waiting list was a year long through 2016, and in LA at least there was still a waiting list well into 2017. No there wasn't. Leaf sales dropped 43% from 2014 to 2015 and were even worse in 2016 for a number of reasons. The first was the Bolt was announced in early 2016 and the Model 3 in mid 2016 [1]. The second reason was the 2016 cost $5000 more than the 2…

Your citation leaves out the part that Nissan cut production of the Leaf in anticipation of the Bolt's arrival. They couldn't have sold more Leafs because they didn't have any more to sell... If you had bothered to read your sources, you would have seen that the reason the used Leafs were so cheap was due to battery issues with the early generation Leafs, which is why demand was so high for new Leafs.

> Your citation leaves out the part that Nissan cut production of the Leaf in anticipation of the Bolt's arrival.

Maybe because it's not true?

> If you had bothered to read your sources, you would have seen that the reason the used Leafs were so cheap was due to battery issues with the early generation Leafs...

If that were true then the 2014 and 2015 Leaf would have been fine since they used the new lizard chemistry. It was only the 2013 or older Leafs that had issues and only in hot dry climates like Texas and Arizona.

Leafs were cheap primarily because there was a glut of off lease vehicles. They were leased for federal and state tax rebates, in Georgia you got enough back in rebates to pay for the entirety of a 2 year lease, 2 years of insurance, and still have some left over. Lots of people leased them, and then when the lease was up they didn't want to renew the lease or buy them.

When I bought my off lease Leaf, I was talking with the salesman and he said he bought one off lease with less than 1000 miles on it because it had just been parked the whole time.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#262

Post by cptskippy »

gamblor956 wrote: post #257
cptskippy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they made a million of the Leaf, there was never demand. Now that everyone is point that out to you, you're trying to pivot to saying that Tesla is losing money on their EVs. Even if they are, so what? Tesla's stated goal was to shepherd in the mass adoption of EVs as quickly as possible. They only need to remain in business long enough for every major auto manufacturer to start selling EVs in mass quantities…

The BS about "shepharding" mass adoption was just marketing speak. It's what Toyota said with the Prius, GM with the Cruise, and Nissan with the Leaf. They all grew their respective markets; the difference is that Tesla was the only one to go all in on EVs and make it their only market (and Tesla owes Toyota, GM, and Nissan, for demonstrating the market for green cars and making them trendy with the wealthy segments…

Serious question, are you a Tesla Short Seller?

You have all sorts of excuses to dismiss Tesla's success in the market. Nissan and GM under produced, Nissan adopted Toyota's Prius ugly car strategy, now that EVs are cool the incumbents will out produce Tesla, Tesla is only successful because of everyone else, Tesla only exists because of government handouts, blah blah blah...

You are trying to come up with every angle you can to excuse away the the fact that Tesla has been successful making a product people actually wanted and not a compliance vehicle purposefully made unattractive to ensure only a limited audience would purchase it.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#263

Post by bryanlarsen »

Hypx wrote: post #255
HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty of material about why hydrogen isn't really better just a google away. Plenty of smart people have evaluated it and realized it's not worth it. Toyota is the only company left that still pretends that it's relevant... while slowly electrifying their fleet.

Most of that stuff is written by people with a financial motivation and are likely biased. You can’t take them too seriously. Toyota, Hyundai, Honda are all investing and expanding investment. That’s for passenger cars specifically. Once you go into industrial and heavy transportation it’s a vast group of companies. People who are paying attention knows that there’s a major revolution afoot. The people with tunnel vi…

> Most of that stuff is written by people with a financial motivation and are likely biased. You can’t take them too seriously.

You're saying that without disclosing your financial stake. "HypX" is the name of a hydrogen car company.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#264

Post by Hypx »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #263
Hypx wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of that stuff is written by people with a financial motivation and are likely biased. You can’t take them too seriously. Toyota, Hyundai, Honda are all investing and expanding investment. That’s for passenger cars specifically. Once you go into industrial and heavy transportation it’s a vast group of companies. People who are paying attention knows that there’s a major revolution afoot. The people with tunnel vi…

> Most of that stuff is written by people with a financial motivation and are likely biased. You can’t take them too seriously. You're saying that without disclosing your financial stake. "HypX" is the name of a hydrogen car company.

That's a coincidence.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#265

Post by jeofken »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #94
lastofthemojito wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the OP meant that electric cars are still cars, and thus encourage car-centric cities with wide streets and lots of space devoted to parking, as opposed to denser, more walkable and bikable cities.

How are all those people who walk around the city going to get there? Norwegians live in quite scattered communities and even though we have better public transport that some other countries it really isn't convenient to time your visit to the nearest town and shopping centre to coincide with the bus timetable. For me a trip to the centre of the nearest town (Drammen, Norway) means a forty minute bus ride and the bus…

I personally hate taking the bus in Innlandet... Too many rude kids and to get to a friends house you need to arrange car for the last mile anyway. Car centric city is preferable if I get to drive

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#266

Post by lldbg »

audunw wrote: post #196
lldbg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am aware (why wouldn't I be?). To me it is obvious that the solution to the global climate change crisis isn't rich countries buying new luxorious cars, that happen to be electric. That's a very western-centric view.

> To me it is obvious that the solution to the global climate change crisis isn't rich countries buying new luxorious cars, that happen to be electric. THE solution? Who has ever said the problem is solved with just one thing? It's certainly a very important part of the solution. Solving climate change is absolutely impossible without electric vehicles and better batteries. This is not just about driving your SUV to…

This is a bit facetious but, my point is that driving to the airport in a tesla isn't solving climate change. The guy in India who lives in a house with dirt for floor is solving climate change, no matter if he likes it or not.

No, the solution is leaving the oil in the ground, anything less than that and what you're making is excuses and not progress. We can't keep moving the goalposts.

There is nothing good for the climate about 13 norwegians (to reference another comment on this article) buying luxurious cars that happen to be electric.

I doubt renewable micro-grids are going to power EVs in the third world anytime soon, but that would be nice I guess.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#267

Post by UnpossibleJim »

clouddrover wrote: post #254
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All four also have off road racing teams (those were the only ones I was familiar with, sadly). I don't follow Formula 1 or Le Mans, I'm afraid. As for Formula E, that's a great question. It seems like it should be right up their alley, but I'm almost positive AI is verboten and that would be a non starter for Tesla.

> but I'm almost positive AI is verboten and that would be a non starter for Tesla Then they can join Roborace which is all about AI: https://roborace.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborace Although sometimes the AI is more artificial and less intelligent: https://www.thedrive.com/news/37366/why-that-autonomous-race...

Now, that appeals to me more than any actual racing! I always enjoyed the DARPA challenge of autonomous, off-road travel.

Thanks for this =)

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#268

Post by rasz »

clouddrover wrote: post #198
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've hit on something that a lot of the detractors of Tesla have seemed to have forgotten. The alternatives are Ford, Chevy, Honda and Toyota. While I fully understand that Tesla is no titan of the little man and Musk is a very flawed man, compared to the titans of industry and the sins of the past that these companies are responsible for, it's a little odd that so much vitriol gets thrown toward Tesla and…

> I haven't even mentioned how Tesla is the only company that doesn't sponsor at least one (I think they all sponsor multiple) traditionally powered racing teams, whose development goes into premium powered, traditional gas powered automobiles. Not exclusively. Formula 1 and Le Mans use hybrid engines. Formula E and Extreme E are battery electric racing series. Why doesn't Tesla have a Formula E team?

Whats the point when everyone drives the same hardware?

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#269

Post by clouddrover »

rasz wrote: post #268
clouddrover wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't even mentioned how Tesla is the only company that doesn't sponsor at least one (I think they all sponsor multiple) traditionally powered racing teams, whose development goes into premium powered, traditional gas powered automobiles. Not exclusively. Formula 1 and Le Mans use hybrid engines. Formula E and Extreme E are battery electric racing series. Why doesn't Tesla have a Formula E team?

Whats the point when everyone drives the same hardware?

They don't. Teams have different powertrains.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#270

Post by anthony_r »

epistasis wrote: post #165
anthony_r wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest most of the "credit" comes from Wall Street. Yes, Tesla wouldn't have been profitable if you subtracted the credits but it is absolutely not worth as much as the market says with the credits or even with 3x the credits it got. And the $TSLA price it's not just some random number mostly irrelevant to daily operations of the company, they sold/issued many shares at such valuations.

I've never looked, but I had always assumed that Tesla's valuation comes from lots of rabid-fans from the retail market. Are there many large investors or Wall Street players that are driving the share price?

I did not distinguish between large and small investors, but pretty sure there are enough institutions on board.
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