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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#151

Post by monocasa »

lrvick wrote: post #133
Bluerise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all the feature wasn't available in the initial Big Sur release and it only got available during the Betas for the first minor patch. Second of all, some Apple developer stated on Twitter that (during M1 unveil) he's finally able to show all the boot policy work they worked on the past year(s) to allow users to boot foreign OSes and without opening up holes for attackers. Basically it boils down to: they cou…

Kind of like all the work Sony did to allow Linux on the PS4 only to kill it later? You don't own a mac. You can only do on it what it is profitable for Apple to let you do, today. As much as I respect the incredible RE skills required for this task, I feel like this is shaky foundation unless an unpatchable bootrom exploit is discovered. Even then new models would be patched leaving existing users with an insecure p…

PS3, and supposedly that was because some jurisdictions treated game consoles and computers differently for import tariffs (computers being cheaper to import), but those jurisdictions changed to not having a distinction.

Agreed with the underlying point you're making though. They allow this because it aligns with their current strategic objectives, and changes to those objectives can be arbitrary and capricious, at least from the viewpoint of the consumer.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#152

Post by klelatti »

mhh__ wrote: post #144
klelatti wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no software developer's manual for the ISA? Arm don't release any documentation on their ISA?

There are currently undocumented instructions on M1, and Apple aren't a regular Arm partner so I'm kind of classing it as it's own ISA

I've seen that too! I have a lot of sympathy for what you're saying here but I think classing it as it's own ISA is a bit of a stretch! How much flexibility Apple have with the ISA is an interesting point - I suspect they are pushing the limits of what they can get away with (what's Arm going to do?) Might be different when Nvidia own Arm?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#153

Post by turbinerneiter »

ogre_codes wrote: post #125
turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

> A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. If Linux only ran on hardware which the creator was willing to provide support, Linux would not exist. Linux was created in spite of Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc etc. Support from the makers only came later. Linux was originally an OS created by people who wanted to do things the OEMs and commercial vendors didn'…

Fully agree.

Sometimes the uphill battle gets tiresome tough.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#154

Post by marcan_42 »

rickdg wrote: post #131

Given the level of technological proficiency of people interested in this project, why Patreon tough? A platform that carries all the fees back to the person you're trying to support and puts their own cut on top for basically hosting a few iframes? Is this really the best way to provide some monthly income? I

I also have GitHub Sponsors!

https://github.com/sponsors/marcan

I want people to pick whatever platform they are comfortable with, and Patreon is very popular, so I offer both. But yes, in principle GitHub sponsors should have lower overhead (I'll have to wait until I get income from both to see exactly how it works out after the intermediaries involved).

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#155

Post by my123 »

ogre_codes wrote: post #14

Just a reminder, the Patreon is not fully funded. If people really want to see this happen, dropping a couple dollars a month to help support the project is the best way. https://www.patreon.com/marcan

With https://github.com/sponsors/marcan also present as an option.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#156

Post by turbinerneiter »

Klonoar wrote: post #112
turbinerneiter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure System76 would really love to design an build macbook level laptops with M1 level chips, but how the hell are they ever supposed to get there? It took Apple, what, 13 years from the iPhone to the M1, surfing on the wave of success of the iPhone. There isn't even a processor vendor that is capable of supplying them an M1 level chip.

I didn't say that System76 needs to pump out an M1-comparable laptop off the bat. In fact, my comment specifically notes "non-rebranded laptop shell" as that would go a long way to turning around the cheap feeling they currently have.

Yes, sorry, I was getting ahead of myself, mixing in the M1 stuff.

But my point still stands: it's hard for them to do their own design with the numbers they sell. They started with desktops, because it's easier to do them custom. I hope they will be able to grow into being able to do custom laptops as well.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#158

Post by granzymes »

danudey wrote: post #84
Hamuko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus Tech Tips actually just released a video a couple of hours ago where they compared the Surface Pro X SQ2 with the M1 MacBook Air. It was not pretty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA

So basically, the M1 Macbook Air is two to three times faster than the SQ2, including comparing ARM Windows on the SQ2 against ARM Windows in a VM on the M1 Air.

The virtualized Windows comparison was just brutal.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#159

Post by wmf »

bgorman wrote: post #149
zucker42 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is no other laptop manufacturer besides Apple has the capital and resources to build their own chip.

Definitely not true, IP blocks are available for all critical features and chip layout can be outsourced. ARM has a Cortex-X chip available for licensing for anyone that wants a high performance CPU core. For example, HP (who also makes laptops) has custom ASICs running Linux in their printers.

Even if you use all licensed IP the market might not be profitable enough to pay back the cost. We're talking about a $50M+ leap of faith.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#160

Post by marcan_42 »

depablo wrote: post #36

Awesome project. Also, nice logo. Given the seemingly unbeatable performance of Apple Silicon (judging by reviews), this would remove one of the bigger pain points of having a Mac. Some projects just don't run on macOS - either due to a community lack, or due to political reasons (e.g. CUDA). I wonder why Apple does not seek to support projects like this. Will be interesting to see how hard it is to bring this to a u…

Credit for the logo and website goes to soundflora* ! She's at https://soundflora.tokyo/ and she also makes some really awesome music.

I was going to say I don't think you'll see CUDA any time soon on M1 machines but... apparently Nvidia does have a beta AArch64 driver these days. TIL.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that working well given that it's, well, the Nvidia blob... but it might (once we get Thunderbolt working, with an eGPU). I avoid Nvidia GPUs these days, so if an eGPU demo does happen, it'll more likely be an RX 5700XT running the open source amdgpu drivers, which I do happen to have lying around :-)

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