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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#91

Post by scoopertrooper »

libria wrote: post #7

Very interesting overall. > Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon macs without a jailbreak! This isn’t a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. Indefinitely? How do we know it's a feature vs a temporarily convenient oversight? > Our goal is not just to make Linux run on these machines, but to polish it to the point where it can be used as a daily OS. Do…

> Indefinitely? How do we know it's a feature vs a temporarily convenient oversight?

Could not the same be said for any computer manufacturer? How do we know for sure Dell won't start locking down future XPS models?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#92

Post by pkulak »

balozi wrote: post #78

This is one of those things that sound interesting but only from a technical point. Why would anyone take on this level of risk? In a few years they will be complaining on HN about being kicked off Apple silicon.

Then just pop Mac OS back on it and sell it for 80% of it's new value. Really almost no risk at all, as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#93

Post by breakfastduck »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #70
machello13 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've plenty communicated their intention to not turn the Mac into the iPhone/iPad. And besides which, it would be a disastrous product strategy to do that, from a company that's absolutely top-of-the-ball when it comes to product strategy.

> They've plenty communicated their intention to not turn the Mac into the iPhone/iPad. Of course not, because they need to differentiate. This doesn't mean they renounce their plans to further lock down macOS. Running non-appstore apps is getting harder and harder each year.

Apart from the fact they've actively stated (repeatedly, during their main presentations) that running arbitrary code on a mac will not be changing.

For a company that seems sometimes to go out of its way to not give any information on anything it doesn't make sense to clearly and concisely make that statement.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#94

Post by rightisleft »

pkulak wrote: post #79
turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

Mac hardware is just so damn good though. And everywhere. I absolutely agree with what you're saying... but man, Linux working well on an M1 Mac would be my ideal machine.

is it? my 2016 macbook was the worst apple product i've ever owned...

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#95

Post by DevKoala »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

Yeah, I also see a tough situation developing a few years down the road when Apple inevitably closes the platform even more and harms features of this project. Hopefully I am wrong.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#96

Post by blinkingled »

This is good of course but it's an uphill battle - just reverse engineering the Apple GPU and making a decent driver for it in itself is going to be a huge problem. Look at nouveau - we still don't have any way to reclock NVidia GPUs. Getting good experience and good battery life with reverse engineered hardware is impossible.

Then there's going to be new gen hardware and firmware updates for existing ones to keep up with.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#97

Post by midrus »

rightisleft wrote: post #94
pkulak wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac hardware is just so damn good though. And everywhere. I absolutely agree with what you're saying... but man, Linux working well on an M1 Mac would be my ideal machine.

is it? my 2016 macbook was the worst apple product i've ever owned...

Worst apple product is still far ahead of most non-apple alternatives. At least laptops wise.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#98

Post by r00fus »

actuator wrote: post #40

It seems so amazing to me that Microsoft saw the ARM opportunity with Windows RT, released 8 years back but somehow managed to not succeed with a stellar ARM laptop story. Maybe Qualcomm is more to blame here for never progressing as well as Apple has done on chips but maybe the software experience was just not there. We would probably already have good ARM laptops running linux distros if Windows on ARM had taken of…

Perhaps it's because the M1 is not just a random ARM chipset.

For those wondering why Apple has a market cap of $2T this may be a good reason.

They have the ability to stage, time and deliver something like the M1 Mac whereas other massive corporations like Microsoft, Google, Intel, etc simply can't.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#99

Post by breakfastduck »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #69
unethical_ban wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not buy hardware that doesn't suck? I still have a Thinkpad for my primary laptop, but using a mac with retina, 5-10hr batt life, and a nice touchpad for work is such a joy compared to a 1080p matte screen with 3hr battery life.

1440p Matt screen, 24G Ram, i7. Battery life all day. Still cheaper than a weaker specced Mac.

But x86, so missing the point entirely.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#100

Post by vlovich123 »

uncledave wrote: post #54
Hamuko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus Tech Tips actually just released a video a couple of hours ago where they compared the Surface Pro X SQ2 with the M1 MacBook Air. It was not pretty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA

It’s 100% on the mark that video.

He’s off on the strategic focus of Apple (where he says that the M1 benefit because Apple is taking a mobile OS and adapting it for the desktop vs Microsoft is taking a desktop OS and adapting it for mobile architectures. The truth of the matter is that Apple has been consistently making CPUs for about a decade that blow away the competition on compute per watt. Like 2-3 years before the industry catches up to where Apple was. They’re just bringing that same power to laptops/PCs as they’ve saturated what that buys them on mobile (not fully but it’s not a big enough sales driver as mobile sales growth has slowed). That’s why you see AirPods and M1 - “where else can we deploy our perf per watt and vertical integration advantage”.

As for “why are there so few ARM versions of apps”, that’s purely the vertical integration piece again. Apple makes it very clear the old tech line is dead so developers have a clear thing to explain to their management. Microsoft tries to keep everyone happy which means devs are like “I’ll wait until this actually has industry buy in” which then Microsoft uses as “well there’s no interest here and maybe the tech won’t work out/vendors won’t materialize” and “we can’t ask our customers to pay this transition cost”.

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