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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#211

Post by arve0 »

1stcity3rdcoast wrote: post #178
arve0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are priced the same, I’ve bought this car to this price. The MSRP includes no sale tax (mva) and no horse power tax. Are you thinking of some other incentives?

The retail price is the same, sure, but the effective price is much different because the incentives come from different tax and rebate schemes that aren't factored into the retail price. EVs have no VAT in Norway, no road tax, no toll or ferry fees [0] -- that's a major difference in the effective price! [0] https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

Sorry, thought you meant “initial” total purchasing price, if that makes sense. Road tax is back, this year. No ferry fee is only on Europe roads. No toll fee still. Also service cost is probably cheaper, as electric has less failing motor parts, not sure about the battery though.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#212

Post by CydeWeys »

dschuler wrote: post #154
unethical_ban wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE vehicles have very little headroom for "environmental growth" whereas electric seems to have very high levels of headroom. Batteries from more common elements, better recycling, more renewable energy to charge them. As much as I love big trucks, there is no "zero carbon diesel". So it isn't pretending, they really are a lot better for the planet in the mid-term and forward.

> there is no "zero carbon diesel". There is, it’s called biodiesel. It’s certainly possible to be net zero carbon with synthetic fuels.

And it's insanely expensive and thus not ever going to be remotely economically feasible. The only reason it might falsely appear to be so now is because it is heavily subsidized (way more heavily subsidized than EVs are).

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#213

Post by CydeWeys »

jeofken wrote: post #49
unionemployee wrote: post #16

Electric cars still result in Phoenix, AZ. What we need is Amsterdam.

In Norway it’s dark and cold as shit half the year and no flat parts of the towns; Amsterdam is flat and always pleasant or rainy

And yet cycling is surprisingly popular in Norway, much more popular than in parts of the US that have much nicer weather.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#214

Post by kjksf »

gamblor956 wrote: post #132
toomuchtodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.

Leafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released. The problem was that they never made enough of them because their respective manufacturers didn't believe the market was very large, largely because battery technology when they were first released simply wasn't as good as it is now.

US sales of Nissan Leaf in 2016 was 14k. In 2019 it was 12k.

If Nissan Leaf was sold out in U.S. it's only because Nissan decided not to make enough of them. Or they made exactly the very small amount that people were willing to buy.

Bolt was even worse. They did 23k in 2017 and dropped to 16k in 2019. GM dealers were so desperate to get rid of them that at some point they offered up to $10k cash rebate. At that despite the fact that GM admitted they are loosing money on Bolt even when sold at full price.

20k a year in U.S. market of ~10 million cars is a rounding error. Whatever the reason, no one except Tesla was selling EV cars in US at non-laughable numbers.

In contrast, Tesla sales went from 50k in 2017 to 195k in 2019.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#215

Post by CountSessine »

epistasis wrote: post #144
gamblor956 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released. The problem was that they never made enough of them because their respective manufacturers didn't believe the market was very large, largely because battery technology when they were first released simply wasn't as good as it is now.

These awful manufacturers have also actively sandbagged their designs, making them less desirable and less normal, in an attempt to limit their appeal. Car manufacturers are masters of marketing. Their choices in how they market these cars are very intentional.

I'm not even sure that it was an attempt to limit their appeal. There's a whole generation of old car executives who still think that anyone who would want an electric car is some sort of hippie-moonbat and you need to make the car look like a plastic sex-toy space capsule to appeal to that moonbat market.

And then Tesla comes along with great engineering and a more conservative body design and eats their lunches.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#216

Post by giantg2 »

t43562 wrote: post #105
giantg2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any suggestions for how to replace lost revenue that would support infrastructure like roads? In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

Per mile charging. Your car reports where it goes using a black box rather like what some insurance companies install then you get taxed based on how many miles you travelled.

How does this work for antique cars or people removing the black box?

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#217

Post by cptskippy »

gamblor956 wrote: post #132
toomuchtodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.

Leafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released. The problem was that they never made enough of them because their respective manufacturers didn't believe the market was very large, largely because battery technology when they were first released simply wasn't as good as it is now.

> Leafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released.

That's not true, people were leasing Leafs for tax credits the dumping them as soon as the lease expired. There was a glut of off lease Leafs on the market as early as 2017. I picked up a 2015 Leaf with 15k miles on it for ~$14k off lease in 2017 before the Model 3 went into production.

Nissan started manufacturing Leafs in 2010 and it wasn't until fall 2020 that they managed to build their 500,000th. By comparison, the Model 3 went into production in 2017 and they built the 500,000th in March of 2020.

Tesla managed to build and sell more EVs in under than 3 years than Nissan did in 10. Either Nissan was stifling production or there was no demand for the product.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#218

Post by giantg2 »

kazen44 wrote: post #118
giantg2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any suggestions for how to replace lost revenue that would support infrastructure like roads? In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

in most European countries (as far as I am aware) vechiles themselves are taxed in so called road tax. you pay a higher amount if your car causes more damage to the road.

Many states in the US do this too through registration. The cost varies by state. In my state, total gas taxes would be about $200 per year for an average driver, with the registration fee being about $50 ($90 for pickup trucks).

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#219

Post by arve0 »

aphextron wrote: post #184
arve0 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you comparing a large car, Subaru Outback, to a small car, Model 3? Model X would be a fairer comparison, where model X is 300k NOK more in base model.

>Are you comparing a large car, Subaru Outback, to a small car, Model 3? They are almost identical dimensions Model 3: 185" L x 73" W Outback: 191″ L x 73″ W

Model X: 198” L x 79” W

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#220

Post by erik_seaberg »

michaelt wrote: post #128
ajross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plug-in hybrids used for routine urban driving (commutes, errands, etc...) are effectively EVs. I don't have usage data for Norway specifically, but the numbers that have been thrown around elsewhere are something like 20-30% of the driving is done using the gasoline engine. Almost everyone celebrating "electric cars" in that headline is really cheering for carbon reduction, and this for sure qualifies.

I've heard some reports that a lot of plug-in hybrid buyers don't plug them in - or rarely plug them in. In which case it's effectively a gasoline car.

I would assume that’s a measure of how many apartments rely on shared or street parking, because anyone with a private garage would prefer to plug in.
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