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Termux no longer updated on Google Play

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Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#171
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the $2k example was misleading, but the fact it's still $800 for a phone with 2014 specs alone would have been more than enough to get his point across. You do have to pay 3-4x the price you would otherwise to get the privilege of running another OS on older hardware with arguably less functionality (OOTB, at least).

Is that unreasonable? Running another OS on a device with physical hardware switches is a privilege right now, so it costs more. There are essentially two companies doing this, and neither of them are even at the point where they can completely honestly say their products are out of beta. The Librem is expensive in no small part because its feature list is fringe, and even ignoring the inherent hardware challenges th…

> Is that unreasonable? Running another OS on a device with physical hardware switches is a privilege right now, so it costs more. There are essentially two companies doing this, and neither of them are even at the point where they can completely honestly say their products are out of beta. The Librem is expensive in no small part because its feature list is fringe, and even ignoring the inherent hardware challenges that's just how the law of supply and demand works.

Sure. 800$ is still quite steep and, exactly as you said, relegates the device to a fringe market.

> What other market have you seen that acts differently? Look at how much other niche devices like Braille screens cost, or even more "mainstream" specialized hardware like the Remarkable Tablet -- arguably a much less capable E-Reader than a Kindle/Kobo device by almost all consumer-relevant metrics. But you'll pay more for stylus support on an E-ink screen if you need that, and you'll tolerate a suboptimal reading experience as well.

> It's also important not to ignore the fact that the Librem is a flagship device. It is currently the most powerful Linux phone hardware on the market. So you can buy a cheap, low-powered Pinephone (the far better choice for most tinkerers), or you can shell out for something with more raw power -- which is also pretty consistent with how most markets work.

"Flagship" doesn't mean much other than "best X company has to offer". Indeed, it's the best you can buy for now, doesn't mean it's particularly great. The experience seems quite hit-or-miss, I've seen both horribly sluggish and quite usable footage just recently.

> If you want to buy the single top-of-the-line Wacom tablet, you'll shell out at least $4,000, probably more when you factor in accessories. You want rotational support in the pen? That's another $100. Is the fractional improvement in a Cintiq Pro 'worth' the frankly massive price increase over consumer tablets? Probably not, you can buy an entire Surface Studio for the same price, and that comes with a "free" computer. But you'll pay the Cintiq price if you belong to a niche that needs the best the market currently has to offer for your particular use-case. And you'll pay the Librem price if you belong to a niche that needs the (currently) most powerful phone hardware that's realistically usable with a Linux OS.

Fair point. Am I misunderstanding the goal of Purism, and merely existing enough for these projects, or are they aiming to grab some market share? I'm just utterly unconvinced that this is anything other than a fun curiosity.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#172
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so wrong with Android that you trust it 10x less than iOS? What attacks are possible on Android that aren't possible on iOS? There are also trivial ways to root ancient iOS versions with a web browser, too. In fact, I think that technique was more common among iOS devices than it ever was among Android...

A bunch of things that add up...: * Lack of things like w^x enforced across the OS. (the root of this post). * The quality of SoC and OEM provided drivers being very very poor - there are lots of kernel exploits to be found. * Very slow/no updates. Time from an exploit being reported to Google to it being patched by a typical user is usually 6 months or more. That means for any random device you find on the street, t…

Some good points, although...

> Lack of things like w^x enforced across the OS. (the root of this post).

Are you sure iOS does this for the filesystem at all? I can't find any documentation besides some comments that they don't allow apps which exec other binaries in the app store.

> The quality of SoC and OEM provided drivers being very very poor - there are lots of kernel exploits to be found.

And how do we know about the quality of the proprietary code in iOS? There have been plenty of exploits found there too.

> Very slow/no updates. Time from an exploit being reported to Google to it being patched by a typical user is usually 6 months or more.

Where did you get this 6 month figure? Was that before or after the introduction of Project Treble, Project Mainline, the new security update system, etc?

> Less strict review process on apps - means there is more dodgy code with access to /dev/exploitabledevice...

Can't argue with you there. However I will say that even the weak points here aren't any worse than the state of the art for desktop PCs

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't control everything on your device (e.g. let one program kill other programs).

I have an app on my non-rooted Android phone which does this. You just need to give the app admin permissions.

Oh cool, I didn't know that what possible. What app is that?

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#174
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority doesn't decide what is done by the minority.

It is increasingly impossible to live in my country without a number of apps that require an iOS device or an Android device with all the Google services enabled. There's one de facto monopoly payment app[0], a lot of places where you can't park without an app etc., but the big thing is we have a government mandated single sign-on solution. You can still get one-time-pads in the mail, but there's also an app, and som…

Thank you for sharing your experience. My country is doing a soft migration, with some places now refusing cash, but I don't care about them or can use help, and larger places like supermarkets having "no cash" and "cash only" checkout lanes, the latter being faster.

Have you experimented with not using your phone for a day or a week and seeing how far you get looking for alternatives? They're usually around, just not immediately apparent, like the "x" button on ads.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#175
post #67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual issue is that Android does not allow executing any code that wasn't downloaded through the play store. And even then only if they're signed by the same user. 1. You can only execute binaries together if they're signed by the same key. 2. Each person has to have a unique signing key. 3. If a user wants to execute a pre-existing software, and something compiled by themselves, both need to be signed by the sa…

Instead of trying to use POSIX on Android, use the Java based APIs, several shells written in Java available on the store. As well as programming environments. I use a couple of them to code on the go.

I've attempted to use many different Android programming environments on my tablet and they're all terrible compared to basic Linux tools and VSCode.

I even managed to get .NET core running on my tablet. There's a real possibility to do real work, everything you're suggesting is a toy at best.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#176

Quick note: Google's Advanced Protection program disallows sideloading apps, so you can't install F-droid. Edit: Note that the Advanced Protection program is opt-in for users that require the highest degree of security Google can offer. Regular users won't be impacted by this. Edit: proof https://imgur.com/a/yktPNIc Edit 2: see @haunter's comment for a link to the change announcement

And even if you disable it, it can still block you. I didn't try to reset my phone completely, but I have to Force Stop the Google Play Store and empty cache/user's data to install any apk

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#177
post #166
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other sources, exceptions force upon me by my social circle, like WhatsApp. I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Libre…

> I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Librem) is abismal. I don't know about it being so much a hardware performance issue, rather than a software optimization issue. Personally, I don't think I need much performance, but I have had issues unlocking my Pinephone because…

Your Whatsapp running on an Android emulator doesn't need to have any access to the SIM card. You only need to have the SIM card on some phone so you can enter the code you're receiving by textwhen signing in for the first time.

You can then use a bridge to connect it to Matrix and chat using Whatsapp from any Matrix client.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#178
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But those are by far the minority of apps, and it seems crazy to make a pretty massive security tradeoff for something that 99% of apps don't need to do. It also completely eliminates general purpose computing. >One solution might be a special permission to be allowed to do that, but it seems unlikely a user could really make an informed decision. I think the way "Developer Mode" on Android is implemented is pretty…

While I agree the current situation does hinder some general purpose computing use cases on Android, it is still possible to run any code you want. If they can develop easier methods for developers to design around the restrictions then that might be a fine solution. > I think the way "Developer Mode" on Android is implemented is pretty good. Assuming you meant Chrome OS here, I disagree. Developer mode sucks because…

No, I was talking about Android, not Chrome OS.

And I was talking about the obscurity level of accessing the developer mode, because you said was hard to achieve a good balance between "too difficult" and "too easy to be tricked into".

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#179
post #177
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Librem) is abismal. I don't know about it being so much a hardware performance issue, rather than a software optimization issue. Personally, I don't think I need much performance, but I have had issues unlocking my Pinephone because…

Your Whatsapp running on an Android emulator doesn't need to have any access to the SIM card. You only need to have the SIM card on some phone so you can enter the code you're receiving by textwhen signing in for the first time. You can then use a bridge to connect it to Matrix and chat using Whatsapp from any Matrix client.

Oh wow! Thank you so much for the tip! I've never used Matrix, but I'll look into that! Not having to depend on the Whatsapp client sounds like a dream.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#180
post #162
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other sources, exceptions force upon me by my social circle, like WhatsApp. I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Libre…

The problem will start with such offerings only if third parties (like employers or banks) demand turning this on. The patronizing of users that started with saftynet is horrifying. I think it will become crucial that some commercialy relevant group uses non play store content. Otherwise the affordance to use non main stream stuff will become higher and higher.

I mean it makes sense. The employer requires you to only trust Google-approved apps since something like an evil maid (or mugging, or blackmail, etc) attack on an unlocked phone is part of their threat model.
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