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I refuse to tolerate assholes

jacobian.org

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#11
This article really strikes a chord. In several nerd organizations at MIT, there are longstanding "assholes" who are brilliant people and whose contributions are very valuable and educational to other members, but who typically write acerbic and harsh messages. (Almost always their criticism is directed at other longtime members, not directly at new members, but even new members see these messages or interactions in person.)

In the past, per longstanding MIT culture, these "assholes" were tolerated and their acerbic comments usually ignored -- meaning the "asshole" would send perhaps one acerbic contribution every 6-8 weeks to an otherwise busy mailing list. (Usually the assholes did not get in dust-ups with other assholes.) More recently, though, a new generation has decided not to tolerate the "assholes" and engages them publicly with every acerbic message, leading to huge flame wars that prove very distracting (because neither the asshole nor the altruist who engages them ever likes to give up).

The organizations usually lack the will to actually expel the brilliant asshole, and it's not clear whether such a move would be in their best interests -- the asshole usually does make great contributions to the mission of the group, and I personally have learned a huge deal by engaging these people and picking their brains and sometimes recruiting them to join my projects because I know they will (and do) keep a sharp eye and tell us what we're doing wrong, and their commitment and level of effort toward a technical goal when they are on your team can be extraordinary. On the other hand, the asshole's acerbic contributions and criticism are doubtless offputting to some new members, even if not directed at them.

I am not sure whether the new state of affairs is actually an improvement. I usually think it may be better just to tolerate the assholes, and I myself have a pretty thick skin about these things. I value the diversity of opinion and perspective and technical skill that comes from having a big tent, and by picking their brains and wealth of experience, I learned a great deal from the assholes. And these flamewars, some responsibility for which falls on the people who won't tolerate assholes, prove incredibly distracting.

The people who adopt hard-line stances against tolerating assholes usually consider people like me -- (hopefully) non-assholes who nonetheless counsel caution and tolerance for the assholes -- to be terribly misguided and injurious to the long-term health of the organization. They make comments like, "I want to be in this organization with my friends, not people constantly criticizing me," which to my ears sounds possibly misguided -- you do not have to expect to be friends with everybody in an organization in order to work productively toward a shared goal. Often, the non-tolerators explain that while they themselves have thick skins, they are engaging the asshole on behalf of other, newer members who are not as willing to speak up but who are offended and repelled by the asshole.

Are we just seeing the consequences of a new breed of the pampered "Generation Y" who have been raised to value civility above diversity of experience and raw merit? Or was the old way -- where harsh emails were merely ignored, while the group proceeded with its business -- just us having our heads in the sand, and unwelcoming enough to foreclose a whole crop of talented (but less thick-skinned) people from entering and flourishing in the group? Is this period of frequent flamewars likely to persist, or are we just seeing the temporary pains of a slow revolution as friendly and civil "millennials" replace the old guard? I really am not sure.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#13
I think you're confusing "asshole" with "socially awkward". The real assholes are the ones who smile and ooze kindness and would backstab you for 10 bucks.

Usually the "grumpy" people you're talking about are just grumpy, but good-hearted in the end.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#14
> These people behave in a way that would not be tolerated in real life. I’ve worked with a few of these jerks in real life, and when they’ve been unable to restrain their behavior I’ve asked for them to be fired, and I’ve quit.

Just because you couldn't tolerate them doesn't mean they aren't tolerated. When you asked for them to be fired (instead of asking the manager to talk to them about their behavior), were they actually fired? That sort of thing depends on the amount of power you hold in an organization. I certainly couldn't just demand that one of my coworkers be fired and expect my boss to acquiesce.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#15
post #7

These people behave in a way that would not be tolerated in real life. This statement is heavy with implications. Like many of us, the author abstracts these interactions into a second class version of reality, even though they are really happening. Why do people who are usually polite in person sometimes unleash an uglier, more confrontational side of themselves when there is a buffer of distance? Even before the in…

I think this effect is exercerbated by the fact that it is difficult for users to discern tone in online modes of communication, unlike phone or face to face discussion (geeks in general have a hard time with either) I've been trying to ensure that I speak to people on the internets like I would if we were talking face to face.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#16
post #8

I'm typically very good at getting along with people, but I suppose my reaction to an asshole depends on the type of assholery being committed. Take for example someone who is egotistical and condescending. I may not necessarily like that person, but I can tolerate that person so long as the work being done is of good quality. On the other hand, take for example someone who takes credit for the work of others or in s…

I think it might be worthwhile to consider the influence that the egoistical and condescending example person might have on someone who is not a perfectly rational actor, and possibly easily cowed into giving up on a technical discussion or retreating from the project as a whole.

Sure, ideally all contributors to open-source projeccts are thick-skinned and confident enough that harsh condescendence will not affect them much, but in reality, they probably are not, and I would rather cater to them than to the "assholes" who might be scaring them away.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#17

Preface: Something I've noticed about jerks/assholes: they're convinced that they're surrounded by jerks and/or assholes. Almost none of them are jerks for no reason. They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). A good sign that you might be a jerk is that you see jerks all around you. Most people are basically all right. If you (1) run into conflicts with…

Your last line was very nicely put. Something a jerk generally wouldn't say. I find that when I give advice to people often times it's more of a reminder to myself.

I agree the world is not divided into jerks/nice people. There's a spectrum. Try to stay on the nice side. You can't always avoid jerks but one should not go out of their way to be around them.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#18

I have similar feelings about this. There are billions of people on the earth and hundreds of millions of them are cool. So, why waste time with people who aren't nice when there are so many nice people to meet?

Because maybe those many nice people couldn't program their way out of a wet paper sack.

If I'm looking for someone to go to a bar with, I'll pick the nice person. If I need someone to help me complete a project at work, I'll probably try to find someone who's good at what they do, regardless of whether they're an asshole or not.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#19
I can't comment directly on his blog. What kind of asshole doesn't let people comment on his blog? :3 (Sarcasm, by the way; I don't have comments on my blog either.)

More pragmatically, the tolerance of assholes is a requisite for using a computer, if you know anything about who maintains your operating system. Linux, glibc, binutils, gcc, X; these are the underpinnings of your system, and they are all maintained by assholes of one kind or another. How do you propose to fix this?

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