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Parable of Alien Chess

lukesmith.xyz

111–120 of 176 posts

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#111
post #102
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the claim lives or dies by its example. The author's whole point is that he's discovered or imagined a situation in which doing science "badly" would be better than doing it "well". If his imaginary situation doesn't actually hold up then his whole argument is nonsense.

Analogies are simply tools to facilitate discussion, they can't themselves say anything definitive about the underlying claim. That's why it's useful to interpret them generously. If I came up with a flawed analogy for time dilation would that show that time dilation is nonsense? I think a better approach on encountering a flawed analogy is to attempt to improve it, come up with a better one, or address the underlyin…

> Analogies are simply tools to facilitate discussion, they can't themselves say anything definitive about the underlying claim. That's why it's useful to interpret them generously. If I came up with a flawed analogy for time dilation would that show that time dilation is nonsense?

That's a bizarre attitude. Thought experiments were a major and important tool in developing the theory of relativity, precisely because they were taken seriously and done rigorously; contradictions weren't waved away as "just a tool to facilitate discussion".

> I think a better approach on encountering a flawed analogy is to attempt to improve it, come up with a better one, or address the underlying claim directly, but saying "this analogy is unclear to me the end" isn't going to get you very far in life.

On the contrary, being willing to call out nonsense has served me very well. There is no "underlying claim" here; the story is what's meant to carry the claim, and if the story doesn't work (and it doesn't) the whole thing falls apart (and it does). It's nonsense, top-to-bottom.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#112
yeah - I think his point was something along the lines of "you can have a useful theory but it might be worth getting rid of it for something less useful that might be more productive in the long run because it has better understanding of the fundamental mechanism."

Or more shortly using predictive ability as the sole criteria can lead to less correct results then alternatives.

If my description is correct I would say that the advantage of using prediction as the sole criteria is that it avoids the burden of making arbitrary selections. I understand the appeal of the choosing a course because it's more elegant or beautiful but if you were getting on a plane and were told that was the guiding light of the designer - or worse the engineers - how happy would you be?

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#113
post #19

I suspect the metaphor is inspired by Feynman's one about gods playing chess [1]. As it's almost always the case, Feynman manages to immediately inspire and illuminate. On the other hand, the present article seems to me to get some important things wrong. For one, it's not the case that overall white and black win 50% of the time each. More importantly though, if somebody is interested in investigating chess, they wi…

>For one, it's not the case that overall white and black win 50% of the time each. He addresses that (first-move advantage from white moving first) in the parenthesis after that same sentence: "After extensive experimentation, they realize this: 50% of the time, the white player wins and 50% of the time, the black player wins (we'll ignore draws and any first-move advantage for the example). "

Acknowledging is not addressing, and in this case the statement amounts to "they realize this: ... (they would not realize this)." It is either too flawed to make the point intended, or illustrates a flaw in the underlying argument.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#114
post #103
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complements it

I think you misunderstand. The work that Einstein did on quantum mechanics was indeed "complimentary", i.e. provided for free as a courtesy. (Although it could be argued he actually got paid for it later with Nobel prize.)

Very affective explanation.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#115
The central thesis of the article is supported mostly by the argument "Yeah, it is dude." Ignoring the weakness of the analogy, there is a reason science is "about models" and not about truth: We can measure and test models, and we cannot measure and test truth.

A theory that is more complex and fits the data worse is a less good theory because it is easier to get stuck in. If I have two new theories with this property, how do I choose between them? Imagining a situation where the less predictive theory is closer to the underlying reality does not change this - the fact that it is closer to the underlying reality is irrelevant until and unless we have measurements that allow us to distinguish those cases, at which point, we will have evidence for the (now) more predictive theory.

This article is actually arguing for a system that would result in more dogmatic acceptance and less critical testing.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#116

I thought this was a quite insightful article - and was surprised to find so much criticism in the comments. e.g. those who are attacking his parable on the grounds that "actually the odds aren't actual 50-50 in chess" or "an alien would have to wonder why some people win more than others"... these objections seem like nit-picking to me and miss the opportunity to broaden our perspectives. The example is to help illu…

People are attacking this article because logical positivism gives them peace of mind. It's nice to think that the universe is well ordered and that the answers are out there. It can give you a sense of superiority, too.

In this sense, a belief in logical positivism has the same psychological basis as a belief in a conspiracy theory.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#117

Going through the piece, he builds upon things that make sense but then just completely goes off the rails at the end. I don’t even know what the point of the article is. It comes across as science/intellectual shaming. > Possibly illiterate dilettantes on the internet might see and bring to attention legitimate theoretical flaws. And if the flaws are legitimate, no matter how much work a scientist has done, then he…

My gut-level reaction (and this guy's clearly advocating for the merit of gut-level reactions! :D ) is this:

This is about priming people to buy into some propaganda system, for instance one constructed for political purposes, and reject their existing assumptions. The weird swerve at the end is the payload.

The reason to do this is, if you're knowingly maintaining a propaganda system that works towards some known purpose, and you want people to fall into it more readily. This doesn't discount the validity of the initial concepts: local maxima are real, and our ability to thoroughly understand things is limited.

But we remain functional through pretending we can indeed understand things, and there's usefulness in that. Generally, axioms are brought into question when specific details don't line up with our theory.

In a vacuum, 'abandon all theories!' is a fine position to have. In reality, 'abandon all theories!' is a set-up for getting fed a pile of information that benefits somebody else, because you become a willingly useful idiot ready to be programmed by anyone.

Running into somebody like this, I find the initial 'abandon all theories!' attitude to be refreshing. I even agree with some of it. If the NEXT THING he tells me is all about how Pepe's face is on the Moon outlined in craters, I've learned to be extremely suspicious of what the guy is really selling. Because even if he is himself sincere… there is somebody up the chain pursuing 'Nigerian spam' techniques and finding out by this who's credulous enough to be used for their own purposes.

And that's what I get from the 'going off the rails at the end'. The point of the article is to hook the truly credulous, and the writer may or may not be in on that.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#118
The author applies logical positivism incorrectly. There's nothing wrong with coming up with new models and testing them against the data, and eventually getting enough variables to be significantly more effective. But such models should be a low portion of your overall probability until actually found to be more effective.

Of course, if you start out with a contrived example where there's a large amount of unobservable simple structure, then it looks like postulating unobserved structures is good. I could give a contrary example where it's impossible to do better than random and draw the opposite lesson.

Beyond that, under logical positivism there isn't a notion of truth as the author applies it. To critique LP by saying it doesn't get at the truth is kind of missing the point.

Re: Parable of Alien Chess

#119
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. The work that Einstein did on quantum mechanics was indeed "complimentary", i.e. provided for free as a courtesy. (Although it could be argued he actually got paid for it later with Nobel prize.)

IMHO that interpretation is implausible. "... [theory] doesn't replace, rather [[its creator] provided it for free]"? makes no sense. It doesn't replace, rather complements it. Occam's razor AND semantics. Edit: maybe you were joking? in which case sorry (it missed the mark)

Pretty sure it was a joke.
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