EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
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Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#2The way I usually phrase this situation is something like
"The goals of a strong government are in direct opposition to the goals of most modern cryptocurrencies", and this is yet another subset of those goals where we can see the forces fighting against each other. I find it hard to convince myself cryptocurrency can win out in the long-term, as the more rules they find ways to skirt around via technology and decentralization, the more they will be clamped down upon by regulations.
You can spend a decade developing a provably-anonymous cryptocurrency (which we have indeed now done), and all it takes to break your anonymity is a law that forces you to report all transactions on a form, or else face prison time.
FinCEN was particularly aggressive and quick to act here, so I do hope they change course, especially given the unusually short comment period. This is where cryptocurrency users should be thankful for some of the less-centralized bodies in the ecosystem (e.g. Coinbase) who will happily spend millions (if necessary) to help fight these actions legally on behalf of their users and business.
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#3I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance.
The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that must be resolved.
Our old-fashioned bank system is far from perfect but it is harder to do illegal things unnoticed, banks report thousands of cases to authorities every year.
Cryptocurrencies is the future, and we should not let our guard down allowing criminal elements to exploit it.
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#4I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
We are happily open to suggestions on ways to stop crime that don't involve collecting any additional data, but I think you'll find it very difficult to come up with systems that satisfy both stakeholders here, as the way I see it they are at a constant impasse.
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#5I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
> The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering
The issue is that you can't actually solve this. It's already over.
The premise of money laundering rules is that you have two conspiring parties transferring illicit gains between one another and the regulations have the bank as an intermediary informing on them to the government.
The existence of cryptocurrency makes it possible to do this without an intermediary party. It has already happened and you can't put the genie back in the bottle. It doesn't matter how you regulate above-board exchanges and transactions in the US because the illicit transaction can occur digitally outside of the sphere of influence of a given country without using any of the intermediaries being subjected to the regulations.
What it means is that all the costs of AML and KYC regulations are no longer buying you anything because actual criminals now have an end-run around them, but they're still costing you something, as the law abiding people trying to comply with the rules, for as long as they remain on the books.
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#6I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
What exactly is this scary crime that is supposively happening with money? They didn't need much money to do 9/11 besides some airline tickets and box cutters, I'm sure it wouldn't trip any bank report flag that would have allowed them to stop it from happening. Organized crime, is that even a thing? If no one is even going after obvious ico scams that have defrauded investors out of hundreds of millions of dollars and other similar things operating out in the open then what exactly are they so scared of that they want to track every transaction? It's just money, what's wrong with someone buying something?
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#7You know, I really would have thought that the Trump administration would have represented the "deconstruction of the administrative state": https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/top-wh-strategist-vo.... This is the common framework that justifies reducing the activity of the US State Department, generally relinquishing the status of the USA as world police, and a sort of libertarian view of personal liberties.
In that framework, you'd think the administration would be very against the government monitoring all financial transactions. Trump himself you'd think would greatly enjoy legally being able to anonymously move any amount of money around. Trump can personally direct FinCEN policy as it's part of the executive branch. Yet here we are, the policy is undistinguishable from the Bush or Obama years.
There could have been silver linings for personal liberties to this administration if they actually stuck to the principles they claimed.
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#8I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
Throughout all of human history people used private forms of money like cash.
Why is it that suddenly only now it is a disaster to have financial privacy because of "crime"?
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#9I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
No it is not. You are conflating the two. Next thing you know, cash is "bad".
Re: EFF to FinCEN: Stop Pushing for More Financial Surveillance
#10I believe privacy advocates needs to be more involved in the financial sector for there to be any meaningful change and provide counter proposals to balance. The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering, financing organized crime and terrorism networks. I often get shat on when mentioning that, especially by loud proponents of cryptocurrencies, but it is a real issue that m…
> The problem now is that a lot of cryptocurrencies are prime targets for money laundering The issue is that you can't actually solve this. It's already over. The premise of money laundering rules is that you have two conspiring parties transferring illicit gains between one another and the regulations have the bank as an intermediary informing on them to the government. The existence of cryptocurrency makes it possi…
Bitcoin is traceable, so it is quite solvable until more people use Monero