Earlier quoted context omitted.
The virus likely didn't originate at the wildlife market, because many of the early patients had no connection to it. There is a building of the Wuhan CDC (not the WIV) near the wildlife market, but the Wuhan CDC has numerous buildings and this particular one doesn't seem to be implicated in coronavirus research.
2 good points. Being in the same city as the virus lab is a lot less suspicious than being across the street.
The Lab Leak Hypothesis
91–100 of 244 posts
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#92I'm not convinced either way, but posting because this is an articulate well written non-sensational discussion of the idea. If it is true, it was almost certainly an accident. Nobody really benefited from this (even if China really has eradicated it, it's damaged their export-heavy economy badly), and if it was terrorists they would have claimed responsibility since that's the point of terrorism. Biological warfare…
> Nobody really benefited from this (even if China really has eradicated it, it's damaged their export-heavy economy badly) This narrative has to stop: the CCP just illegally annexed Hong Kong 27 years ahead of the hand over and violated it's autonomy in direct violation of the internationally recognized treaty, which may arguably require China to return HK to British control--but the UK is entirely destroyed due to…
And the brits legally stole it? Give me a break.
> violated it's autonomy in direct violation of the internationally recognized treaty
It was violated nearly 200 years ago, when britain invaded it in the first place.
> The CCP committed Crimes against Humanity to do so and passed the National Security Law which has removed rule of Law in what was once a beacon of Western values
Western values? Does that mean hong kong is going to invade australia and wipe out the people and pretend the land is theirs? No such thing as "western" values. Not sure why it is being parroted by propagandists and media all of a sudden.
So china takes back territory that was stolen from them and they are the bad guys?
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#93Also an MIT alum, and in July I was considering the bayesian priors of the situation: Roll a dice representing all the possible bat-human interaction sites in the world. How often do you get a result so incredibly close to one of the few sites in the world that intentionally collects these things? I have worked in clean room environments for years. Everyone eventually has an off day (lack of sleep, usually) where you…
Roll a dice representing all the possible years of bat-human interaction.
How often do you get a result so incredibly close to the start of related gain-of-function research?
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not going to read the article. This long-form stuff is particularly sticky. If the story is told well, you're likely going to remember it as true (or at least credible) even the story wasn't credible in the first place.
The truth of a story does not depend on the credibility of its narrator. To assert otherwise is the definition of ad hominem . Claims asserted may nonetheless be untrue or may not be as strong as claimed. But that requires careful, critical examination. I'm perplexed by this reaction, as if reading something with a critical eye is impossible. Or, worse, that reading something by someone without a particular status or…
It actually does. I'm going to respect the opinions of serious scientists, doctors, journalists, lawyers, etc on topics of their expertise.
> But that requires careful, critical examination.
That was my whole point. By stating claims as an elaborate story that requires time investment as a reader, with a lot of flourish from a professional writer, you're undermining careful and critical examination.
You're also risking the story being memorable and sticking with you, in the same way that people watch historical movies and then internalize that as what actually happened. Even though you know most movies are fictional, if it's the reference you feel an emotional attachment to, you'll justify it as true to yourself.
Humans aren't good at purging information once they've been exposed to it, especially if it resonates with them.
> I'm perplexed by this reaction, as if reading something with a critical eye is impossible.
It's not impossible, it's just impractical. If I read something by a well-respected person with expertise, then the point of reading is to retain as much shared knowledge as possible. If I read pieces like this, then I get to live in their narrative for a little while, but I have to be careful not to absorb too much of it or take plausible sounding things as true, at least pending fact-checking.
> Or, worse, that reading something by someone without a particular status or pedigree might become as infectious as SARS-2 itself and turn us into zombies or something.
Indeed, that is what's happening. We used to value expertise. Now everyone's opinion is equally valid.
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which always makes me incredulous why nobody ever breaks these down piece by piece if it's so obvious. Education is much more effective than proof by repeated assertions.
Because it’s an extremely long article and it’s a lot of work for me to do for no reward.
"This article is disinformation. For example they claim X when in reality !X as you can see here." Is a way more persuasive and valuable comment.
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#96> There is no direct evidence for these zoonotic possibilities, just as there is no direct evidence for an experimental mishap But there is so much more opportunity for the zoonotic possibilities. In fact, this is the seventh time we've seen Betacoronavirus cross from bats, through another animal, and then into humans. SARS came via palm civets. MERS came via camels. Four more types cause a mild cold only and so they…
That's not in evidence.
>Bats were initially suggested to be the source of the virus, although it remains unclear if bats were sold there (Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market).
>Despite the role that the market played in the pandemic, it is yet unclear whether the novel coronavirus outbreak started in the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huanan_Seafood_Wholesale_Marke...
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#97While we're discussing racist coronavirus conspiracies which can't explain the positive COVID results of Italian and French patients in November 2019, why don't we go all the way instead and discuss the conspiracies used by Trump supporters? The virus was clearly manufactured by the deep state to steal the election from Trump, to take away person freedoms and to implement a global reset. I find that theory to be much…
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/world/asia/china-covid-or...
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#98Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#99I'd like to ask everyone commenting on this article: who wrote it? Seriously -- what do you know about the author of these words? (There's no "author's bio" anywhere on the page, or even if you click on his name.) So what do any of us know about him? If you look him up on Wikipedia, it lists his occupation as novelist and fiction writer, as well as an "essayist." ("His fiction generally de-emphasizes narrative in fav…
My favorite part of the article is where he says "there is no direct evidence for an experimental mishap..." Followed a few words later by the word "Nevertheless..."
China has from the beginning barred neutral third parties from visiting the site and collecting samples - even of the disease itself and continues to do so while peddling conspiracies on state media that make Trump sound positively sane.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-guarding-ancient-bat-caves-...
Re: The Lab Leak Hypothesis
#100I'm not convinced either way, but posting because this is an articulate well written non-sensational discussion of the idea. If it is true, it was almost certainly an accident. Nobody really benefited from this (even if China really has eradicated it, it's damaged their export-heavy economy badly), and if it was terrorists they would have claimed responsibility since that's the point of terrorism. Biological warfare…
Nobody benefits but who gets hurt the least? Totalitarian regimes are inherently more capable of dealing with the problem for obvious reasons.