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Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

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Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#81
post #56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 22 is much more stable than AB5 because the requirements to change it are much more difficult to reach.

We are not talking about stability of AB5, but rather the situation before it. It was trivial for most other industries to get excemptions to AB5 (there are tens, if not close to 100 excemptions now). So what really changed with prop22 comapared to before AB5?

Answered here[1]

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25641580

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#82
Something I don't understand – everyone online is fuming that these drivers will lose health insurance and other benefits, but wasn't the point of prop 22 that DoorDash (and others) will have to provide these benefits to their drivers regardless? Why would any full time driver lose health coverage due to this?

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#83

This of course has led to a lot of 'I told you so!' and finger-wagging that voters were too stupid, and shouldn't be allowed to have the initiative system because they're too easily manipulated. Prop 22 wasn't unclear. The voters knew what they were voting for, which was to keep the status quo with regard to gig economy jobs, and roll back the broad, messy legislation that the state legislature had enacted. Had Prod…

[deleted]

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#84
post #57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are establishing weird timelines on these decisions. Uber, Lyft, etc set themselves up in California because they consider themselves tech companies. The state of California likely couldn't have cared less about the special class of workers they employed until the group reached a critical mass which obviously didn't happen before these companies were founded. I don't know specifically when they reached critical m…

Albertson's doesn't need it. They would use a third party AB 5 or not. It may cost more if AB 5 were in effect, but it's still less than having your logistics in-house. Having someone else do your deliveries and such has been a thing for a long time. Companies have gone back and forth depending on who's doing the bean counting and what they think is crucial to business. Sometimes they would split it. Some in-house so…

We are just going in circles now with the conversation and clearly I'm not going to change your mind.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is an existing large class of people (2 in 3 Americans) who have acted based on the idea that housing is a market and have bought a home on that basis. They have no interest in altering the status quo. To add to that, you can't choose what housing is priced by unless you have government price controls and that is a cure that's worse than the disease.

Singapore has some pretty nice public housing. If there was a government policy that any time median rents climb above X, the state will procure land and build housing until it drops below that number again, it might be more workable than the blunt instrument of price caps.

I am a huge fan of public housing, not least because of the fact that I think that in the absence of a Land Value Tax, the state owning a large amount of land in high-growth regions is important for the public to diminish the impact of rent-seeking.

However, the practice of this is that these governments are highly corrupt, and usually conspire to use the mechanism of public housing as primarily a means to enrich themselves through the proxy of their construction contractors.

Look no farther than Dianne Feinstein and Tutor Perini.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#86
post #82

Something I don't understand – everyone online is fuming that these drivers will lose health insurance and other benefits, but wasn't the point of prop 22 that DoorDash (and others) will have to provide these benefits to their drivers regardless? Why would any full time driver lose health coverage due to this?

They're replacing good paying union jobs with contract workers for a 3rd party company. The original jobs that are being cut are not in any way comparable to what prop 22 offers gig drivers.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#87
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why can we not agree that the people who do the job deserve to be compensated with a living wage Living wage based on locally inflated housing prices is just fundamentally broken concept. It is just ideological cover for wealth transfer from productive economy to landlords (by focusing on 'living wage' based on market housing costs and not on 'affordable rents' based on market wages). If there is an excess of worke…

Ok, why can't we just say housing isn't a market, it's priced primarily for livibility and less for some concept of quality. Then living wage doesn't need to be opened to inflated housing markets.

Well, due to limitiations in supply, housing is market based on scarcity. There is no way to fix that without fixing the fundamental issue of insufficient supply.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#88

Everyone is so against this move but it I was a grocery store I wouldn’t want this responsibility either. These stores are in the business of groceries, not delivery. They got into delivery because they had to and I’d imagine it was losing a lot of money and not to mention tough for them to accomplish and manage. Everyone else and their brother is moving to doordash white label because it makes the most sense. They f…

Don't know about Vons nameplate stores, but their Pavilions stores offered delivery in the early/mid 90s. It wasn't as heavily used as today but did keep two fulltime employees booked up constantly. Since I no longer live in Southern California, I don't know if Pavilions has maintained this service continuously but suspect they have as it fits very well with their upscale customer focused business model.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#89

Everyone is so against this move but it I was a grocery store I wouldn’t want this responsibility either. These stores are in the business of groceries, not delivery. They got into delivery because they had to and I’d imagine it was losing a lot of money and not to mention tough for them to accomplish and manage. Everyone else and their brother is moving to doordash white label because it makes the most sense. They f…

This grocery store chain had delivery at various times going back over a decade. It has nothing to do with the pandemic.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#90
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But remember when you “vote with your feet” that you are a refugee not a missionary. Dont vote for the same things that made you left on your new place!

Oregon! But yeah, I agree. Don't try to institute the same policies in your new state which lead to your decision to eventually leave your old state.

Problem is that many who are moving aren't giving a whole lot of thought as to why California has had such a large reduction in quality of life. They simply know QoL has declined to a level where they want to be somewhere else. They may have different theories as to why QoL tanked, some might even know that some of the policies they voted for had a hand in it while believing that they simply weren't implemented well in California but think "we'll get it right this time" in their new home state.
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