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Telegram publishes users' locations online

blog.ahmed.nyc

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Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#31

Post by marta_morena_9 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #9
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #3

Telegram has so many anti features and dark patterns that I really wish it was less popular. I honestly use WhatsApp over Telegram because at least I know WhatsApp is insecure while people sometimes act like Telegram is a secure platform.

I’ve heard other folks say WhatsApp is insecure. Do you (or anyone else) have specific examples or concerns?

Like... Facebook can read all your messages? The encryption only protects you from entities that are not Facebook. With that out of the door, it's not really worth it to even consider other angles of attack, since you now depend on the goodwill of a billion dollar company whose sole purpose and reason for existence is to extract and monetize your data. WhatsApp is a nice chat tool, but it's nothing you should ever use for secure communication. Sending a letter via mail is more safe.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#32

Post by dragonwriter »

gruez wrote: post #28
rlpb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a fixed offset for a particular person, then isn't that just another variable in a simultaneous equation? You'd just need one more sample to solve for it.

No, because your solution will be off by that offset. eg. if the offset is 1KM to the north, and you tried the method mentioned in the blog post then your final solution will also be 1KM to the north. You can still use the information for limited stalking purposes (eg. has the person moved or not), but it's not nearly as useful as knowing their exact location.

If you can ever determine their exact location at any time that you have the data for, you can determine the offset and then determine their exact location at all other times you have data for.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#33

Post by est31 »

kop316 wrote: post #4

Hmm...So I have Telegram installed via F-Droid (so presumably without Google Play Services). I do NOT have the "People Nearby" feature. I am curious if that means my location is not published?

I can't find the feature at the described location either, but apparently if you go to contacts there is a "find people nearby" button. If I click it it asks me to share the location, which I have disabled. So I guess I'm safe?

It's mentioned in this changelog item: https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS/blob/847...

It usually takes some time for Telegram to be published on F-Droid, so the newest version on F-Droid is 7.2.1 while the newest one on Android is 7.3.1. It might contain such a menu on the newer version like in that screenshot. Or the button only appears at that place if you have enabled location sharing.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#34

Post by gruez »

dragonwriter wrote: post #32
gruez wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because your solution will be off by that offset. eg. if the offset is 1KM to the north, and you tried the method mentioned in the blog post then your final solution will also be 1KM to the north. You can still use the information for limited stalking purposes (eg. has the person moved or not), but it's not nearly as useful as knowing their exact location.

If you can ever determine their exact location at any time that you have the data for, you can determine the offset and then determine their exact location at all other times you have data for.

but that was in my original comment?

>[...] but if you have a known point of reference (so you can deduce what the offset is) [...]

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#35

Post by est31 »

gruez wrote: post #28
rlpb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a fixed offset for a particular person, then isn't that just another variable in a simultaneous equation? You'd just need one more sample to solve for it.

No, because your solution will be off by that offset. eg. if the offset is 1KM to the north, and you tried the method mentioned in the blog post then your final solution will also be 1KM to the north. You can still use the information for limited stalking purposes (eg. has the person moved or not), but it's not nearly as useful as knowing their exact location.

Do this a couple of times, plot the locations, and you'll see a subset of the town's map. You might be able to identify prominent shapes like interestingly shaped roads or bridges. Then drag the points layer so that the roads/bridges etc align.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#36

Post by 3PercentMan »

So in the article, the author was able to find the x- and y- coordinates of the other user. What if the target user lives in a high rise building, is there any technique you can get the height of the said user? Makes me wonder how the law enforcement is able to tri-angulate the suspect's exact location.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#37

Post by srockets »

marta_morena_9 wrote: post #31
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard other folks say WhatsApp is insecure. Do you (or anyone else) have specific examples or concerns?

Like... Facebook can read all your messages? The encryption only protects you from entities that are not Facebook. With that out of the door, it's not really worth it to even consider other angles of attack, since you now depend on the goodwill of a billion dollar company whose sole purpose and reason for existence is to extract and monetize your data. WhatsApp is a nice chat tool, but it's nothing you should ever us…

If they can, then either Facebook boldly lied about implementing end-to-end encryption[0], or found significant attack against the Signal protocol, which is considered quite safe.

They do have access to the metadata, i.e. whom you messaged and when.

--

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/05/whatsapp-completes-end-to-...

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#38

Post by est31 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #9
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #3

Telegram has so many anti features and dark patterns that I really wish it was less popular. I honestly use WhatsApp over Telegram because at least I know WhatsApp is insecure while people sometimes act like Telegram is a secure platform.

I’ve heard other folks say WhatsApp is insecure. Do you (or anyone else) have specific examples or concerns?

WhatsApp lets you upload your chat history to either icloud or google's cloud offerings. Those backups are accessible to Apple/Google. Many people have enabled it, so if you are in any decently sized group chat you can basically assume it's available to Apple/Google, the people who hack them, and whomever they have data sharing contracts with.

Personally I use Telegram because they don't mind non-official clients like the FOSS builds. Whatsapp on the other hand is known to ban non-official clients. API access isn't available either unless you are a big corporate user, at which point you need a facebook ads account and cooperate with some API reseller... no joke lol.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#39

Post by wruza »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #3

Telegram has so many anti features and dark patterns that I really wish it was less popular. I honestly use WhatsApp over Telegram because at least I know WhatsApp is insecure while people sometimes act like Telegram is a secure platform.

Which dark patterns exactly?

I didn’t know that the described functionality even exists, and it is off on my phone. TG is one of the apps that implements 0 dark patterns, imo.

By comparison, whatsapp regularily tries to cloud-ize me by making a backup and re-enter my personal data. I just tap “never”, “done” once a month, but it is annoying af when it happens at the incoming call. It also forced users to enter a status (but there was a bug that allowed to enter empty one). And if you have a sim-less device, it is such pita to install it there. No updates will be available, ofc.

Re: Telegram publishes users' locations online

#40

Post by sysashi »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #3

Telegram has so many anti features and dark patterns that I really wish it was less popular. I honestly use WhatsApp over Telegram because at least I know WhatsApp is insecure while people sometimes act like Telegram is a secure platform.

Do you mind providing examples of "anti features and dark patterns"? Just curious
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