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America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

nytimes.com

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Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#151

Post by boringg »

outworlder wrote: post #50
boringg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 days to determine what the Moderna vaccine should be from a computer. Building the vaccine, bio-reacting it to scale and testing across appropriate populations took a considerable amount of time. Health regulations are in place for a reason, to protect the public not to protect incumbents. Sometimes I am sure it does, other times it makes sure poor products don't go into the public market.

> 2 days to determine what the Moderna vaccine should be from a computer This step used to take years. And require state of the art facilities, with biohazard containment, viral samples, etc. Now? Given a virus sequence done in a lab on the other side of the planet, one can design a vaccine in a day. Sure, it took many years of research (and in coronaviruses in particular) to reach this stage, specially on how to sta…

Oh I think you are misconstruing my statement. It is an incredible feat what’s been done on these vaccines. I assume you got youre intel from the bio eats world podcast. I’m pointing out that jumping the testing that slows the vaccine to market is a bad move.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#152

Post by glial »

jjk166 wrote: post #134

Most stories like these completely misunderstand the issues with american manufacturing. It's easy to see lower American manufacturing employment and increasing Chinese manufacturing and conclude that American jobs are simply moving to china, but this narrative doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. Take for example steel production. American employment in the industry has fallen by 55% since 1989, while chinese producti…

Wow, thank you for such a thorough and informative comment.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#153

Post by kenned3 »

nine_zeros wrote: post #143

I don't see any talk of removing US dollar as a reserve currency. The only reason China is so export oriented is because they need to earn dollars to buy oil. If they didn't need to buy oil in dollars, they would reorient their factories to sell their manufactured goods domestically, giving everyone a high standard of living. Instead, they are making more and more goods for our fat American consumption just to earn m…

Your post contains many errors.

1) The "Petroyuan"... Should this ever happen, Oil will be priced in Yuan. https://eurasiantimes.com/petro-dollar-vs-petro-yuan-is-chin...

2) this is NOT the reason china exports. They do this as they have a large labour advantage, very lax pollution laws and can make things for far cheaper then others can. You can determne this for yourself once you realize that China doesnt only export to the USA. When China exports to the EU for example they earn Euro notes. They can convert Euro's to USD if needed, but i dont think their primary goal is to accumulate USD, espeically given their massive USD Bond holdings. If anything, they are probably looking to sell USD bonds to diversify.

3) removing the US as a reserve curency wont just make americans "poorer" - it will have a devistating impact on your ability to borrow. Since the US gvt constantly runs a deficit who will finance this when other nations no longer want/need USD?

4) The US needs to import because as the article stated, they no longer manufacture things. Try going to a city like "bridgeport, Connecticut" and see the mothballed factories. It will take decades to undue the damage outsourcing has caused.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#154

Post by johnzim »

mncharity wrote: post #146
legitster wrote: post #83

So few of these conversations actually discuss the reasons American manufacturing is so uncompetitive and assume it's entirely legislative/outside factors. As I been told, cost is rarely the primary factor - Chinese manufacturing is insanely flexible. You can set up a plant with almost no capital, be able to retool at a moment's notice to a customer's whim, and add and drop employees to production at the drop of a ha…

> flexible I don't disagree, and very not my field, but I found it curious that France's manufacturing exports per capita remain 2x the US[1], despite not having a reputation for flexibility. Germany remains 4x. Which raises a question, with respect to manufacturing exports, why does the US look like a smaller EU, rather than like a larger France or Germany? [1] https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/mnfc.ex?coun…

Germany has 2 advantages: 1) A deliberate political aim to maintain a manufacturing base, prosecuted over decades; and 2) A currency which is deliberately kept cheap by use of ballast (the PIGS - Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain) - countries whose currencies would, on their own be considerably cheaper than the amalgamated Euro.

The US could, if it wanted to have both of these advantages, which is why I'm pretty bullish on the potential for the US manufacturing future, if not on the reality:

1) is political and requires expensive action that is broadly not favored by either party - protectionism, boosterism, technical training, PPPs. Concerted effort at Federal and State levels. We do it for Defense but not for other sectors.

2) would look reasonably achievable but somehow the Fed has missed its inflationary targets for the few years, so I'm a little skeptical about the chances. Also if you look at the dollar's relative price over the last 30 years it broadly approximates a sine wave that we're on the upwards slope of (past performance yada yada etc)

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#155

Post by s1artibartfast »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #107
formerly_proven wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also has the highest spending in health care per capita. Spending does not equal outcomes.

Yes, I agree. But the comment implied neglect, which is false. Our education system is a mess, but it's not due to neglect, and it doesn't have anything to do with manufacturing being shipped abroad. As a side note, the US has the second highest public spending per capita (second only to Norway, last I checked). Our Government spends more per citizen than all but one "socialist" country. We then of course spend anoth…

While I am generally sympathetic to the education and healthcare points, I would be interested in seeing the public spending per capita after defense spending.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#156

Post by recursivedoubts »

greedo wrote: post #121
recursivedoubts wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree. But the comment implied neglect, which is false. Our education system is a mess, but it's not due to neglect, and it doesn't have anything to do with manufacturing being shipped abroad. As a side note, the US has the second highest public spending per capita (second only to Norway, last I checked). Our Government spends more per citizen than all but one "socialist" country. We then of course spend anoth…

How much of that public spending is on the prison industrial complex? On "law and order?" Not all public spending is equal.

That is public spending on healthcare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#157

Post by recursivedoubts »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #155
recursivedoubts wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree. But the comment implied neglect, which is false. Our education system is a mess, but it's not due to neglect, and it doesn't have anything to do with manufacturing being shipped abroad. As a side note, the US has the second highest public spending per capita (second only to Norway, last I checked). Our Government spends more per citizen than all but one "socialist" country. We then of course spend anoth…

While I am generally sympathetic to the education and healthcare points, I would be interested in seeing the public spending per capita after defense spending.

I should have been clearer: that is public spending on healthcare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#158

Post by spaetzleesser »

bmitc wrote: post #63
spaetzleesser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. It would be great if these brights were working on important stuff like how to deal with plastics recycling and separation. Instead it’s about extracting as much as possible from existing tech. It reminds me a little of the situation with journalism and news. We have less and less reporters collecting information but more and more websites and blogs that dissect and debate the same information.

> working on important stuff like how to deal with plastics recycling and separation Do you happen to have any helpful analysis, articles, companies, etc. along these lines? I have thought it would be a fun thing to work on, but I have struggled to know where to look and haven’t found anything particular in my searching.

When you look at recycling facilities there are people sorting the trash that goes by them on conveyor belts. To automate this you need to somehow detect what the item is and then you need to be able to handle it. Seems like a great challenge for computer vision or other sensors and then robotics. Or have robots that can find trash in oceans or on beaches and remove it. This would be super useful but unfortunately our system rewards producing trash way more than removing or even better avoiding it.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#159

Post by s1artibartfast »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #157
s1artibartfast wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am generally sympathetic to the education and healthcare points, I would be interested in seeing the public spending per capita after defense spending.

I should have been clearer: that is public spending on healthcare : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Thanks for clarifying.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#160

Post by l3v3ll »

Kranar wrote: post #88
nicoburns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the UK it's a lot more uneven than that. House prices have increased far far above inflation over the 20th century (not entirely evenly). So those who invested in property at low prices are now sitting on large nest eggs, while young people are unable to make similar investments as they are already priced out of the market.

Sure but that's because a house in London is a fundamentally different asset today than it was say 30-40 years ago. I live in Toronto and people in my generation complain about housing prices here as well, that their parents bought a house for super cheap back in the 70s and 80s and now they have no chance to afford anything. What's not discussed is that these cities were much smaller back then, had far fewer service…

Right, good luck predicting and buying a house in the next London. Just like my stock pick is going to be the One in 30 years.
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