Earlier quoted context omitted.
The downvote button should be replaced with an "off topic" flag. If downvote is opposed with upvote and upvote is understood to mean "I agree" or "this is informative" then downvote would be expected to mean "I disagree" or "this is bunk". It's semantically misleading.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171
Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
901–910 of 933 posts
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#902Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I search "Kleenex", am I specifically looking for the Kimberly Clark product or should Procter & Gamble be allowed to bid on ads for that search?
Certain types of product have become directly linked to a product name, yes. Google is smart enough to know this, though. If I google for my non VC funded product name, which is unique, why should the first result be for a direct competitor with deep pockets in advertising? This would be fine if Google embraced their dependance on ads, but Google still labels itself as a “search engine”.
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#903Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure that if I typed foo in my browser back in the early 2000s I'd go to foo.com or www.foo.com. Now I type foo in Chrome, see the logo for foo, but end up at a Google search page. This is very clearly a step back in terms of user experience.
In modern Safari this pattern will often take you directly to the website (or some other, non-Google website when it guesses wrong). When it works it's very nice.
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#904Earlier quoted context omitted.
I might be misunderstanding... but, negarive ROI? I.e, the more they spent on ads, the less sales they got? Feels like a missed something, as that sounds... counterintuivie. (Not in any way related to the ad industry so pardon my ignorance)
No. A negative ROI just implies that the ratio of benefit/cost is less than one. If I incur a cost/investment of $100 but it creates value of $200 then I have an ROI of 100%. If this same expenditure instead only produced $80 value then I would have -20% ROI as in the value I’m realizing from my investment is 20% less than the cost of the investment.
ROI > 1 = profitable ad spend
0 Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#905Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had a hunch and looked at MDN's list of web extension APIs. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/Web... It seems like you could implement your described behavior as a cross-browser extension, for everything except Safari (and Android Firefox -_-). Easier than forking Chrome! :)
What's the point of listing Edge or Opera? Is the same damn browser as Chrome after they forgo their engines.
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#906Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is Coca Cola rent seeking? How about Apple? I suspect you aren’t using that term correctly but maybe I’m missing something.
Coca Cola sells water with flavouring and quite astonishing amounts of sugar. Apple sells nice devices made by what might as well be slave labour. Both are propped up - actually maintained - by huge and vastly expensive brand management strategies. The criticisms of individual campaigns here are missing the point. It's not about micro ad spend, but the perception of value and manipulation of behaviour created by the…
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#907Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why wouldn't someone jump at an opportunity to prove the thing/service they provide actually works, unless they were unsure about it themselves? Because everyone is already acting like they know it works, so the only way that experiment can change things is in a way that's bad for the person in question. In that situation, they should (from a local, selfish perspective) be resisting even if they're awfully sure it…
The analysis is often performed by a different team, thus no conflict of interest.
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#908Earlier quoted context omitted.
The analysis is often performed by a different team, thus no conflict of interest.
And if the team doesn't get the desired result there will be a different team next time.
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#909Earlier quoted context omitted.
> " edit: I hate to say it but the auto-downvoters here on HN are approaching reddit levels. Everything I said above is true. " It's not that you're wrong, it's that you're boring. "I knew this years ago, look how my cynicism is superior to your naievite" is a boring comment to read. You could explain why you think this is any closer to fraud compared to selling anything else and claiming it's the best in its class,…
Please don't cross into personal attack and name calling. It only makes things considerably worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Re: Uber discovered they’d been defrauded out of 2/3 of their ad spend
#910Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No one can actually prove it has any ROI at all. No one is willing to run the experiments necessary. This is entirely false. I work in adtech, and almost all companies run experiments in order to optimize their ad spend (everything from Ad A vs Ad B, to Ad vs No Ad, to Channel A vs Channel B, and more). This isn't to say that advertising always produces ROI. Quite often, experiments will be run that will show a cer…
> I work in adtech, and almost all companies run experiments in order to optimize their ad spend ... It's incredibly naïve to think that companies are flushing half a trillion dollars a year down the toilet on advertising without any attempt to validate their investments. We have a very large and conspicuous example here that suggests that Uber hasn't been doing this. Running experiments like you suggest is difficult…
I'm not sure this article is the smoking gun that the author makes it out to be. By 2017 Uber had reached saturation in what could reasonably be considered their addressable market. From my perspective, turning off app install campaigns and not seeing any dip in acquisition validates this position.
Meanwhile, their other major app, UberEats, is a business that exists in a highly competitive market, and they continue to invest in app marketing in order to grow that division. If the takeaway from this article was that Uber discovered app marketing was useless, I doubt you'd see them make that same mistake again.
> While I'm sure some of the bigger F500 companies do a good job validating their ad spend, most companies don't even know how.
If anything, I think bigger companies are more prone to overspending/spending inefficiently. While they do experiment to try and optimize strategy, there is some business inertia that gives them the flexibly to move a little slower, since one poor marketing decision will not sink the business overnight. Conversely, small businesses don't have the resources to investment as much in marketing. This leads to poorly run ad campaigns, but rather than continuing to invest in a bad strategy, they typically just kill the effort altogether.
Most small businesses don't need complex experiments to understand how marketing effects their bottom line - poor ROI is a lot more apparent when you're low on funds. That's also why it's in an ad tech platform's best interest to make efficient advertising as accessible as possible.