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America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

nytimes.com

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Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#81

Post by recursivedoubts »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #48
recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

We were sold down the river by our own elites, particularly on Wall Street and with the full complicity of the Economics Departments of the west. "Comparative Advantage", something something about corn and wool, meanwhile the whole supply chain was moved to China, our middle class was decimated and we went into tremendous amounts of debt to pretend everything was fine... Left, right... whatever. The elites have faile…

The problem isn't comparative advantage, it's that the US left the poor states to languish with poor education. So instead of higher quality manufacturing / blue collar jobs, non-educated folks got minimum wage service jobs.

The US is at or near the top of all western countries on educational spending per student:

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#82

Post by bmitc »

Tycho wrote: post #67
bmitc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what is there to automate in the U.S.? Most of what could be a target of automation is already in China.

Well if cheap labour is not an input then there's no reason that the manufacturing has to be done somewhere with cheap labour costs.

But the automation will need engineers and technicians. China is likely not super reliant if at all on the west for automation expertise, and is likely closing any gap that may exist. They have a legion of more and more well educated people to fill those roles.

I’m super worried that the U.S. is turning into Russia, i.e., a corrupt oligarchy with no want or ability to mobilize and educate its people. China saw that happening to themselves and specifically steered away from it back in the 80s.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#83

Post by legitster »

So few of these conversations actually discuss the reasons American manufacturing is so uncompetitive and assume it's entirely legislative/outside factors.

As I been told, cost is rarely the primary factor - Chinese manufacturing is insanely flexible. You can set up a plant with almost no capital, be able to retool at a moment's notice to a customer's whim, and add and drop employees to production at the drop of a hat.

Meanwhile, in the US, unless you are talking about very expensive CNC processes, batch production is not a thing. If you set up a production line, everything needs to be stable and long term. You need permits. You need employee contracts. You need to train people. You can't handle a lot of turnover. You bring in robots, and that requires more specialization and training.

I firmly believe that things which increase fluidity in the labor market will be key to improving US manufacturing. Things like affordable healthcare and housing. Make it so that people can comfortably live in a gig economy.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#84

Post by deeeeplearning »

aeternum wrote: post #5
fermienrico wrote: post #2

I wish Silicon Valley wasn’t just about software, particularly adtech. Some of the most brilliant minds are working on optimizing click ratios. There is some hardware tech (Apple, nVidia, Intel, Tesla), but vast majority of the engineers are working on cushy jobs paying $400k to serve ads. SV should be leading investments in Semiconductors, automation and manufacturing tech. It doesn’t even live up to its name. If yo…

Thinking about SV as just adtech is pretty reductionist. Through another lens, SV basically solved big data and global software distribution and scalability. Big tech has contributed to both the tools that allow handling massive data streams and ML. That foundation is what is helping data-driven manufacturing companies pull ahead.

>Thinking about SV as just adtech is pretty reductionist.

Is it though? On a revenue basis I wonder what percentage is made up by adtech?

>SV basically solved big data and global software distribution and scalability

In order to serve more ads...

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#85

Post by seppin »

twobitshifter wrote: post #12
prionassembly wrote: post #3

China is able to manipulate its exchange rate to regulate the relative prices of imports and exports. So are ~200 other economies in the world. The US doesn't have an exchange rate to fiddle with. Hell, it can hardly produce domestic inflation with its low interest rates, let alone devalue its currency. Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege

If China can move to DCEP (Chinese state crypto) and get their borrowers to follow their lead, the US will find itself in a tough position. In the end game for China, they displace the US and can avoid the dollar in trade.

If it was that easy to displace the dollar, someone would have done it already. What advantage does a Chinese cryptocurrency have over a traditional one?

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#86

Post by deeeeplearning »

aeternum wrote: post #19
ragebol wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what purpose is that big data stuff typically used for? Something related to serving ads.

For Tesla, collecting self-driving training data as well as general fleet data. For Square, collecting transaction data to mitigate risk so that merchants worldwide can take payments. For Uber/Lyft predicting areas where there will be people needing rides to optimize transportation needs. Plenty of real-world applications other than ads.

>to optimize transportation needs.

You mean to optimize Uber and Lyft revenue

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#87

Post by blackrock »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

We were sold down the river by our own elites, particularly on Wall Street and with the full complicity of the Economics Departments of the west. "Comparative Advantage", something something about corn and wool, meanwhile the whole supply chain was moved to China, our middle class was decimated and we went into tremendous amounts of debt to pretend everything was fine... Left, right... whatever. The elites have faile…

Your politicians failed you.

You vote for them, and you feel good if they win. But then what happens? Nothing.

The rich keeps getting richer. While the poor stays poor. And the middle class becomes poorer.

The elites just wants to make more money. And what do they do? They buy out the politicians, in order to keep themselves rich.

And what’s the biggest lie that they’ve sold you?

That trickle-down-economics works for everyone.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#88

Post by Kranar »

nicoburns wrote: post #64
Kranar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course there is a generational divide and it's a great thing and exactly what one should expect. Someone who is 60 years old has had approximately 30-35 years worth of time to invest and accumulate assets compared to someone 30 years old who has only had 5-10 years worth of time. What would you have expected to see in the alternative?

At least in the UK it's a lot more uneven than that. House prices have increased far far above inflation over the 20th century (not entirely evenly). So those who invested in property at low prices are now sitting on large nest eggs, while young people are unable to make similar investments as they are already priced out of the market.

Sure but that's because a house in London is a fundamentally different asset today than it was say 30-40 years ago. I live in Toronto and people in my generation complain about housing prices here as well, that their parents bought a house for super cheap back in the 70s and 80s and now they have no chance to afford anything.

What's not discussed is that these cities were much smaller back then, had far fewer services both private and government, had much higher crime and pollution and a host of issues that have all been substantially ameliorated over the decades, specifically the 90s.

If people want the experience that their parents had to find cheap housing, then they have to move to a location that is in a similar state today that London or Toronto was in 30 years ago. Those places do exist and there's no shortage of affordable and cheap housing in Canada, many parts of the U.S., and I suspect the UK.

The problem is that what people my generation really want are all the benefits that have come over the past 3-4 decades without the cost of paying for those benefits, and that's just not likely to happen.

Re: America Can’t Even Produce the Things It Invented

#89

Post by renewiltord »

xyzzyz wrote: post #36
habosa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

84% of wealth in the stock market is in the hands of the top 10% Not sure about housing.

Can you provide source for these numbers?

It's always interesting to me when people react like this to an internet comment without sharing any research they did themselves.

To me a forum like this is like when I'd be sitting around in uni wondering aloud about some problem and someone will say "Well, maybe if you use the fact that the functions which invert the sign of the √2 and √3 parts in Q(√2, √3) are automorphisms, then you can see that the group containing them and their composition is just Z2×Z2".

The truth of that part isn't important. It's the fact that it's a good faith hint. It's my job to go find the truth given this mild heuristic.

They're the ones doing me the favour so I have to contribute in order to get more information. In this case, I can attempt to find an error in the proof or to ask clarification. But if I were to ask them to write out a proof then I'm being a fool and I'll get fewer hints from them in future.

I noticed that most people who really know their field don't cite their assertions. It makes sense. So now I'm not surprised when people don't provide a citation. It's just a hint. They didn't sign up to be my tutor.

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