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Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#71

Post by monksy »

JohnCohorn wrote: post #18
gruez wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the same argument for top level ministers. eg. "well it's fine for the PM and the cabinet to ignore lockdown directives because they're only 0.001% of the uk population" It's still inconsistent, bad for PR, and puts the whole government into question.

I dislike sports, but I do see that making pro sports broadcasts continue could provide the entertainment needed for folks to be happier to stay inside their homes like they should.

I love the fact that they're open and televising the fact that no fans are there. That really stops people from trying to pressure venues from "sneaking in".

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#72

Post by ubercow13 »

uncledave wrote: post #44
qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

That’s probably because the moment someone looks at it objectively someone posts a headline along the lines of ”8 year old dies of covid” or ”Tory MP says N is an acceptable death count” . Both are useless headlines as quoted but the entire political system is a shit media popularity contest and literally the only objective is to come out looking less bad than thy neighbour. So the hard questions are never asked for…

It's unclear how cancer and mental health patients would be any better off with less sacrifices, that would lead to the health care system being more overwhelmed, not less.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#73

Post by djsumdog »

JohnCohorn wrote: post #18
gruez wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the same argument for top level ministers. eg. "well it's fine for the PM and the cabinet to ignore lockdown directives because they're only 0.001% of the uk population" It's still inconsistent, bad for PR, and puts the whole government into question.

I dislike sports, but I do see that making pro sports broadcasts continue could provide the entertainment needed for folks to be happier to stay inside their homes like they should.

Why not let everyone else sports to stay healthy and strengthen their immune systems, as well as get outside (where it's warm enough) and get the vitamin D they need?

Why should people who get paid a million get special treatment over those who are barely making it an unemployed? Being able to shoot some hoops seems more valuable for the 20 year old's mental health than watching some rich top-of-their class play in am empty stadium with cardboard cutouts.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#74

Post by matz1 »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #25
qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

“nobody is asking the hard questions.” Maybe they have asked these questions and concluded that this is the best path? Seems most countries are following similar paths.

>Seems most countries are following similar paths

Doesn't mean it is the best path. Monkey see monkey do. As Desmond Swayne called it 'Herd Stupidity'

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#75

Post by rusk »

djsumdog wrote: post #63
rusk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol spreads COVID. Not exactly ... but it breaks down social barriers and can cause people to be careless. If we had banned or at least curtailed alcoholic sales I can guarantee you probably the numbers would be half what they are now. A big problem is that once you close pubs clubs and other outlets then people start having secret house parties and these are very hard to police. I guarantee you, that even the be…

This is complete and total arbitrary nonsense. You're taking a conclusion and trying to walk back a path of logic to some type of justification. Let's see this for what it is: arbitrary decisions that curtails the human rights of all human beings by politicians who are figuratively drunk with power. They are banning things for the common people while they leave their regions, have expensive $1k dinners for their poli…

Sorry but this is derived from actual contact tracing (not the UK where they haven’t really bothered but a culturally similar neighbour) - but of course you’re so outraged that’s what matters more.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overloo...

This article is about 6 months old, and we’ve moved on even more since then. It’s so saddening to see so many bright people unable to keep up.

Tell me again about Sweden sad lol

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#76

Post by f6v »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #38
f6v wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So alcohol spreads COVID? This always gets me. Isn’t it obvious that alcohol consumption is a social activity? Not all of it, but to a large degree. Limiting the consumption seems logical. Of course, you can’t assess the impact of individual measures at the moment, as you need a controlled experiment and proper statistics. But is this measure really something to be that upset about?

> Limiting the consumption seems logical. Lots of "plans" seem logical and this is precisely why technocracy is a vexation on society. Unintended consequences. The presumption of knowledge and control. All of these elite presumptions are illusory and fundamentally hubristic. You know why "limiting the consumption" of alcohol is a dumb suggestion? We have tons of evidence that it was a massive failure: Prohibition and…

> The idea that we can force humans into acting against their fundamental instincts to socialize is folly.

Do you really want to go down that road? Well, here we go: procreation is a fundamental human instinct. Do you want to legalize rape? Didn’t think so. You see how folly your argument is?

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#77

Post by monksy »

waterglassFull wrote: post #23
CodeGlitch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on the football thing, although the players will be getting regular tests, and the sport generates a tonne of cash. The rest of it make sense to me. Your example of golf: the sport includes the whole social aspect (the golf club rooms etc). Remember they have to keep the rules simple. Also allowing people to order alcohol to be delivered within the hour probably isn't the smartest!

You can still buy alcohol in stores; by take-away this means in a ready-to-drink fashion. Alcohol delivery to a house is fine unless you're assuming people are still having parties.

Limit the amouunt of pre-prepared alcohol that can be delivered to a house at one time. You shouldn't be an ondemand keg delivery at this point or delivering 2+ cases in one go.

Also part of the delivery portion of this is about supporting the pub/bar. Not the access to alcohol. (Otherwise you'd just go to the store)

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#78

Post by jeofken »

f6v wrote: post #37
malka wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because UK is not a dictatorship. China is.

Yeah, lockdown parties are a basic human right.

Agreed. No man has the right to violently hinder free people from living free. My body is my property and not the property of the state.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#79

Post by ACow_Adonis »

gruez wrote: post #13
foota wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does make sense imo to allow elite sports to continue while banning amateurs, there are relatively few elite players so the additional risk overall is low.

You can make the same argument for top level ministers. eg. "well it's fine for the PM and the cabinet to ignore lockdown directives because they're only 0.001% of the uk population" It's still inconsistent, bad for PR, and puts the whole government into question.

it's literally the same logic for why any individual or group can rationalise not following the rules.

/which is precisely why there shouldn't be these kinds of arbitrary exceptions.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#80

Post by qeternity »

Daishiman wrote: post #43
pageandrew wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns trade away the life, health, mental health, education, and social development of children and young people for the safety of less than 1% of the population that are either aged or unhealthy as it is, and who can be protected in other ways. And even mentioning this cost, which is becoming quite extreme (look at youth suicidality numbers, and childhood depression rates), causes you to be accused of not caring…

Considering the vast number of excess deaths of old but healthy people and the human cost of the people who continue to show symptoms months after initial infection, I would say your calculations are just wrong.

Excess deaths globally for 2020 will end up being about 2.5%

Is that vast?

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