We just had a thread about the abusive conditions at apple. A union could help address that behavior.
A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
511–520 of 1001 posts
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#512It seems incredibly significant that only 230 people are officially involved with these plans to unionize. As of 2019, Google had nearly 120,000 employees.[0] That seems quite small, relatively speaking. Legally (I think, just learning about this now), to form a union, a majority of workers must show their willingness to form a union. Alternatively, to choose an existing union to join, an election with 30% of the wor…
I think the 30% rule (and even the vote) is only needed for a "traditional" union that seeks exclusive authority to negotiate wages etc.
This is something else.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#513Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…
> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…
My friend just moved to Germany. They make WAY less than SV engineers (working at the same company). Granted, they don’t have to work 24 hour oncall shifts. I’m not saying the less wages is because of unions, just pointing it out.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.
> Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. Isn’t this roughly the same order of magnitude as many Google developer salaries? If so, how much more expensive can any employee be before he is too expensive to employ?
Its pretty much the same number. An L4 at Google makes $250k and an L5 makes 340k on average according to levels.fyi. My experience with countering Google offers would indicate these are a bit low.
Edit: Then you have to factor in the free breakfast/lunch/dinner, buses, electric car parking and the fact all my Google friends seem to rarely work > 40hrs per week.
That being said, all the 'grunt' work at Google is done by contractors, who are paid far less and while they get the free food they do without things like PTO and Sick time.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#515When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
It's also funny because blue collar work is / can be ridiculously well-paid, in part thanks to the union's efforts.
All the "ridiculously well paid" unionized blue collar workers I know are the people who work a ton of hours of overtime in an environment where their seniority permits them to get first dibs.
They are outnumbers ~2:1 by the blue collar workers I know who make that kind of money by working for themselves or by making themselves so indispensable to some employer that the employer pays them well above market to retain their experience in a non-union environment (e.g. the maintenance guy at a factory who's been there forever and a half and knows exactly why everything is the way it is, this maps pretty well to a lot of the highly paid "architect" positions that a lot of tech BigCos have).
I'm not sure how these situations map to a salaried workplace.
Yes I know this is just an anecdote.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
Employees can ask for better, but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. There are very few perils of leaving Google - a top tier company in an industry t…
It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. Employees pushing for change from the inside is probably the only thing that could ever make Google change, so this is absolutely a good thing. If you are an engineer at Google and can't get a job somewhere else, I don't know what to tell you. So…
Amazing point that very few people get....
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#517When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
While I would prefer a union in the US, I do believe it will be extremely toxic itself in current SV manner. I am situated in a country where unions are common, but tech doesn't have one because working conditions are good due to it being a sellers market for work.
Tech companies behaved in a way that they deserve uncompromising worker representation. But I believe it will currently end in a group of sociopathic individuals that will put a strain on tech. I don't mind to be proved otherwise, but I don't see the wrong people getting elected to represent workers.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#518When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
Of course wealthy Hollywood celebrities support unions: they make it harder for outside talent to compete with them.
And they absolutely do limit the work that union members are carrying out. To name a fairly recent example, that's how Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog came into existence, making it a web series allowed Joss Whedon to still make something without running afoul of the Writer's Guild strike rules.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
> engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" While I generally agree with the sentiment of your comment, I would like to point out that the above is only true for green card holders. There are a lot of H1B/L1B workers stuck at bad teams with high amounts of pressure/stress and incompetent or downright abusive managers. For them, leaving the company isn't an optio…
The best way to respond to a frivolous PIP as an employee is a frivolous harassment claim against the manager, sexual or otherwise.
Encouraging fraud, nice.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#520When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
> Screen Actors Guild,
The SAG isn't a typical union. The SAG constitution [1] contains a special provision requiring a supermajority to ask for a pay cap or to call a strike. Acting, like tech, is largely meritocratic with a huge talent dispersion. A prohibition on pay caps is necessary.
I somehow doubt the Google tech activists will be copying the SAG's meritocratic philosophy. Every single thing I've seen from Google activists and their ilk is about prioritizing technical excellence way behind having the correct ideology. The people behind the Google unionization effort are not genuinely concerned about working conditions. They really want two things:
- to be gatekeepers that keep their ideological opponents out of big tech companies (even moreso than now), and
- to gain power to pressure big tech companies into punishing their ideological opponents (for example, banning advertising from certain websites, refusing cloud services to oil and gas industries, censorship intensification, and large donations to their favored organizations).
If you'd been at Google and watched all this unfold over the past few years, it'd be obvious to you what these people are really about.
[1] https://www.sagaftra.org/files/sa_documents/2019%20Constitut...