I don't think H1Bs will unionize, there's too much too lose if they get fired.
A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#362[deleted]
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
>When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions Because everyone talking about unionization refuses to get into the nitty gritty of what I might gain, what I might lose, and the structural changes to the workplaces that are inherent with unionization. And if/when I/others start spitballing about what those might be we're treated like dolts uneducated on organized labor, and should just…
So you want someone who can tell you what the yet-to-be-negotiated contract with your employer will look like? Maybe you should be looking to join up with the Mage's Guild, I understand that their magic can see the future very clearly.
I don't need to see a negotiated contract. I need to see a list of grievances the union wants to negotiate for. So far everything I have ever wanted but not had from an employer I was able to find by switching employers. What is something concrete that would make my life better that I can only get by joining a union?
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#364A tangential point, but I find it weird and somewhat amusing that an article on US Google employees should use a photo of Google's London engineering office. Maybe they don't have a good shot of a lot of people standing in front of some US office?
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's pretty good. For example, initially the company was reluctant to transition to remote work for COVID-19 pandemic, but workers' concern was well represented. My impression is that among South Korean digital companies, unionized companies transitioned to remote work earlier.
1) COVID is a highly atypical situation. Other than during a once in a lifetime global pandemic, which benefits/drawbacks do you experience? 2) Most US companies had no problem going full remote some time during the spring of 2020, doesn't look like "unions" play a big role there.
I just used the recent example that comes to mind.
The most prominent benefit is fight over overtime pay. In fact overtime pay is what triggered unionization in South Korean IT sector. Pre-unionization, basically no one in South Korean IT paid overtime. It is legally a gray area. Then Naver (the dominant search engine in South Korea) unionized over overtime pay and won. Other companies, including Kakao, quickly followed and all won. Naver union shared their know-how to other union organizers.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.
Just call it what it is, greed. Why is it greedy if company owners want to make money, but "good and social" if workers want to make money? I don't think the "earnings per employee" metric entitles employees to anything.
Is it really 'greed' when the capital ownership class want more money? That's not the narrative I hear pretty much everywhere, I simply hear it rebranded to: growing the economy, improving life, creating jobs, etc. It all depends on the argument and who wants what.
Ultimately, capitalism drives greedy behaviors in everyone either by choice or by necessity. At some point if you don’t adopt similar behaviors to the greedy, you will be taken advantage of, guaranteed. One of the flaws of this system is that competition is what props it up and gives it stability, so everyone has to play the optimization game as much as the most optimal are optimizing, otherwise they're 'losing' in our economic system, relatively speaking.
So yes, it's the same optimization like behaviors Google and other giant businesses in the capital ownership class are utilizing. Are the motives different (greed, survival, sense of 'fair' compensation)? Maybe, maybe not, but if you don't play the game it doesn't matter because you're being taken advantage of and the state will only decline.
I for one applaud Google employees pushing this and hope they can set a precedent for the entire industry. There is widespread rampant abuse in tech no one talks about or just ingore and it's often waved away because '...but money' and employment mobility. None of these fix the underlying problems and are often merely excuses made to allow abuse to grow and fester.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly - people don't want to sacrifice their paycheck for their principles, so instead they are forming a union so they can try and change the company and have it both ways.
> so instead they are forming a union so they can try and change the company and have it both ways. Is this a bad thing?
Nope.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#368When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…
The point of unions is obviously for employees to unite in order to strengthen their bargaining power. Engineers at Google are very well paid and have very nice perks (at least that the general perception), so I think what many people might wonder is what better deal do they feel they need strongly enough to unite in order to get it?
Power. It's the hunger that is never satiated.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#369I called ConEd and union workers were slacking by my house the entire working day. At the end of the day they went out , checked my cord, said nothing wrong and finished the day. I heard many other similar stories like this. If google will face this situation they’ll just move their workforce elsewhere except some numbers of really great talents , and those will be motivated.
Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
>When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions Because everyone talking about unionization refuses to get into the nitty gritty of what I might gain, what I might lose, and the structural changes to the workplaces that are inherent with unionization. And if/when I/others start spitballing about what those might be we're treated like dolts uneducated on organized labor, and should just…
When the company has numerous legal or illegal but usually unpunished methods to suppress the discussion, it can be very difficult to conduct the negotiations between employees necessary for the concise plan/contract you request. Voting in a union is actually voting first that you opt in to a collective bargaining agreement, then negotiating the terms of the agreement among members. Later, negotiations are had with t…
>Your POV is common to many that will accept much less with certainty rather than working through a decent amount of uncertainty for the prospect of a whole lot more.
Don't you put that on me. You're explicitly talking about a scenario where we're not even comparing notes on the possibility space of that uncertainty until I'm downside-committed.