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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#351

Post by Mauricebranagh »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #16
amelius wrote: post #13

Perhaps App store publishers can unionize too. For example, instead of having small companies publishing apps themselves, they can have an organization do it for them, so it's big organization versus BigCorp, instead of little guy versus BigCorp. Also, it could provide some more transparency of the App Store sales.

Is there precedent for a group of unrelated individuals who happen to be in the same industry ‘unionizing’ ? Edit: answer of course is guilds, thanks commenters :) The word union threw me off. One could totally imagine an ‘app developers guild’ to help defend against the big guys. Go start one!

"Guild" might not go down to well in the USA as it sadly implies restrictive practices (descrimation against black workers) - read up on the early labour history in the USA.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#352

Post by piker »

ekimekim wrote: post #246
piker wrote: post #156

Honest question: are there good examples of unionized companies that continue to innovate post unionization? Unionization seems at the surface like the end stage of disruptor where stakeholders begin jockeying for slices of a pie that now grows linearly.

Remember that correlation does not imply causation - even if it's true that innovative companies tend to not have unions, it might be (for example) because younger, smaller industries tend to be innovating faster and also haven't developed to the point of unionization yet.

It was actually a question somewhat about correlation. I.e., unionization is a symptom that signals the end stage, not something that causes it.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#354

Post by zer0faith »

The reason for these folks unionizing is not for the traditional reasons (higher wages, better benefits, work life balance, keeping the company from running you over, ect...) This is more along the lines of being able to protest work that is consider unethical (IE the AI noted in the article, working with other gov'ts ect...) and not be penalized or fired for it. Unfortunately, I don't believe that a union is the answer for their problem because so long as there is money to fund a project there will be people lined up to work.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#355

Post by parasubvert »

karl11 wrote: post #110
avianlyric wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…

Employees can ask for better, but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. There are very few perils of leaving Google - a top tier company in an industry t…

Seems pretty straightforward. Sometimes you fight for reform inside a system instead of leaving it. This is how those inside gain leverage.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#356

Post by firefoxd »

230 out 100k+ want to unionize? It would be nice for sure, but unions are not coming back[1].

The campaign to disrupt unions was successful and they are easily dismantled without breaking the law. Yet the employees still need protection. Unions have been sorta replaced by HR. Employees almost always go to HR to resolve issues but they forget that this entity is for the company, by the company.

If we want to make any impact I think HR is where we start. We turn it into a public and legal entity, required by law if the company reaches a certain size. And it reports to the state government.

[1]: https://idiallo.com/blog/unions-are-not-coming-back

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#357

Post by mondoshawan »

wccrawford wrote: post #247
mondoshawan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first I've ever suggested an opinion on it publicly, and I'm a line engineer, not management. Internally, I don't usually talk about things like this, either.

Right, that's why the GP said that only those who were understood to already support the idea would have been approached about it. You're an unknown, and they didn't risk telling you and have it leak early. At least, that's the idea. Who knows how true any of this is yet.

The parent comment originally was written in such a way as to imply I was management.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#358

Post by Mauricebranagh »

orange_tee wrote: post #25
mensetmanusman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there precedent for a group of unrelated individuals who happen to be in the same industry ‘unionizing’ ? Edit: answer of course is guilds, thanks commenters :) The word union threw me off. One could totally imagine an ‘app developers guild’ to help defend against the big guys. Go start one!

Yes. Cooperatives. Farmer cooperatives are quite common for example. Basically, freelancers who have to negotiate with the same small number of other entities can form a cooperative to both handle the admin and also allow them to negotiate as one.

Producer coops are common in the USA part of KFC is one I seem to recall.

Worker coop is quite different - having been a member of one in the UK - I Know one UK union looked at forming a coop to get round IR35

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#359

Post by j45 »

If unions are about collective and not selective workers rights, what types of workers rights are missing not only at Google, but FAANG?

We hear lots about unions... or lack of them stifling access to opportunity or innovation, I’m curious to learn more about:

- What a modernized or reimagined practice of a union could look like where it wasn’t anchored in the world changing slowly, instead of quickly?

- How might a reimagined union focused on today’s issues with today’s approaches in the 21st century look and start much differently than one incarnated a few hundred years ago? Is there a step change possible or already occurred in some cases?

- How can unions overcome the issues that other bureaucracies (enterprise, Govt, education, health, etc) experience, including in some cases inhibiting change at the goal of self preservation?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#360

Post by xyzzyz »

jonahrd wrote: post #260
appleflaxen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You list teachers, who in my opinion are the poster children of how problematic unions are. And there are some phenomenal teachers out there. There are teachers that change lives profoundly. But they don't need the unions, and the terrible teachers who should be fired /are/ protected. It's really messed up, most people have first-hand experience with it, and they are a corrosive factor in the end.

I think it's pretty hard to claim that the reason there are bad teachers is because it's hard to fire them because they're unionized. There are a lot of potential reasons: - The pay is crap - The "prestige" is crap - The barrier to entry is low In Finland, for example, there are excellent teachers because the profession is treated as on par with doctors. I don't think it's fair to blame unions for this difference in…

Teacher pay in the US is pretty good, if you take into account hours actually worked and benefits, especially very generous retirement ones.
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