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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#81
post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

Just wondering but what companies are comparable to google to work at (with similar pay and culture)?

I can only think of a handful that pay as well and even less if you consider corporate mission and culture.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

230 ex google employees tried to form a union

Where do you see in the article that they aren't current Google employees?

The negative implication is suggesting they'll be fired

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#83
post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

So these are really good examples, but I still don't understand what unions can do for 1% of someone's pay. They kind of look like subscription services, or worse places you have to join or else there are unintended consequences from other examples where they mention looking at union membership as an indicator of some experience (so kind of like a tax).

The screen actors guild and all the movie-related guilds seem interesting, but aren't those kind of like freelancers more than closer to fully employed people? I guess it would be beneficial for salary negotiation for non-software engineers and maybe contractos, but I don't really see the incentive to join one as a fulltime software engineer.

Maybe I have a bad opinion on unions due to how they operated in my country that's not US :D.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#84
post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too.

You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions?

> engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better"

How is individuals leaving "collectively bargain", it's the complete opposite, it's individual bargaining, with all the perils that entails.

> Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.).

This is just a mis-conception, look at Germany where every industry has unions, regardless of size, and unions has a say in how companies are run, and what direction they head in. They make sure that shareholders and employees get input into the highest levels of leadership, ensuring that shareholders can't force decisions that benefit shareholders at the detriment of employees.

Finally Google looks like the perfect place for a union. Any company that rewards senior leadership for sexual harassment clearly doesn't consider it's employees important, and those employees should absolutely make it clear who generates most of the value in a company, and ensure they're treated fairly.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#85
post #34
post #6

Wapo has more details about the structure of the union, which is apparently nontraditional and won't go through NLRB ratification: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/04/google-... However, while that article says they will not be able to be a collective bargaining unit under US law with that structure, the announcement oped in the NY Times ( https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/opinion/google-union.html…

You don't necessarily need an NLRB contract to get wins for employees, though the legal protection certainly helps. I understand AWU is currently following the CWA "Solidarity Union" model: not currently seeking recognition but may choose to do so in the future. (Disclosure: I am a member of AWU)

There is a great line of research that part of labor's downfall in the postwar era was due to becoming to legalized/instituionalized, creating a hysteresis trap were the unions official power (laws and norms) lagged behind the underlying conditions that give it real power (labor scarcity + worker radicalization). Workers got complacent and depoliticized starting with the red scare, and edges along by shitty union leadership, and the whole Regan era turnabout was less a right-wing conspiracy and more the hysteresis delay coming to an an end.

Members-only unions and whatnot that forgo the NRLB are "riskier" in some sense, but that vary precarity / forgoing of intertia can avoid the lag and help keep the union vigilant.

See a popular exposition in https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/06/uaw-academic-workers-coll..., which is a better piece than much Jacobin stuff I might add.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#86
post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

It's also funny because blue collar work is / can be ridiculously well-paid, in part thanks to the union's efforts.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#88
post #81
post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

Just wondering but what companies are comparable to google to work at (with similar pay and culture)? I can only think of a handful that pay as well and even less if you consider corporate mission and culture.

Exactly - people don't want to sacrifice their paycheck for their principles, so instead they are forming a union so they can try and change the company and have it both ways.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#89
post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

> None of these unions are limiting the work their members are carrying out.

I don't believe that this is a truthful statement. Does Global Rule One in the SAG not limit the work that members can carry out? If they union doesn't want you to work on a production then you are not allowed to work on that production.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#90
> Google contractors have long complained about their unequal treatment compared to full-time staff. While they make up the majority of Google’s workforce, they often lack the benefits of salaried employees

I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK contractors benefit from tax advantages compared to salaried employees, although HMRC is actively trying to kill the contractor market by tightening IR35 rules. That said, if contractors end up getting the same benefits as salaried employees then their contractor status is on dodgy legal ground. This may be a phyrric victory for them.

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