Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births • Hacker News Board

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#21

Post by fogihujy » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

Swedish authorities did write a report about this about a decade ago[1]. Long story short: The immigration approach won't really work as different people have cultural differences, educational differences, ambitions and life-goals, and it's unlikely that there will be enough compatible people that are actually interested in the openings that actually exist.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20170216060417/https://www.tillv...

Apart from that, simply replacing the population also presents quite a few challenges that are likely to result in a very infected and polarized debate regarding the future direction of the societies that such replacement takes place in.

That being said, I believe you're right about the fact that there's going to be a lot of migrations going on around the Globe for the next few hundred years. It's just not automatically going to solve the birth rate issue.

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#22

Post by rmrfstar » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

This assumption that countries need population growth is insane. Humans are not bacteria, we should not pursue endless population growth. What we need is serious investments in technology to make elder care easier.

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#23

Post by albertgoeswoof » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

rmrfstar wrote: post #22

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

This assumption that countries need population growth is insane. Humans are not bacteria, we should not pursue endless population growth. What we need is serious investments in technology to make elder care easier.

What are we if not bigger bacteria?

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#24

Post by ben_w » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

Allenaz wrote: post #17

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

So we don't fix the stupid economic system in place and throw immigrants at the problem, all the while making their origin countries even worse since it's now deprived of the ones bright enough to qualify for skilled labour... doesn't sound like the best of plans.

Bright people have a whole world to move to, not just South Korea. For example, I went from the UK to Germany, and my sister-in-law went from the Philippines to the UK.

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#25

Post by albertgoeswoof » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:51 AM UTC

akmarinov wrote: post #14

foreigner wrote: post #3

So what's the long-term plan here? A country's population is just supposed to keep growing... forever?

Yep, colonize other planets, spread humanity across the stars.

Getting a human to another star is probably not going to happen without some crazy physics breakthrough. They’re just so bloody far away

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#26

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

[deleted]

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#27

Post by sideshowb » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

QuesnayJr wrote: post #12

FiReaNG3L wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, same as the economy, too many things depend on infinite growth (retirement funds being the main one).

Most economic growth comes from technological advance. Do you expect technological advance to stop before the Baby Boomers retire? It's possible, but it's not obvious to me.

What's your source for "most"? I'd always thought a small fraction was technological advance while a large fraction was unsustainable use of resources

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#28

Post by jmnicolas » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:56 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #5

Birth rates are dropping globally and we’re all living longer. The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates. With climate change likely to affect the habitability of many of our current settlements, as a species we’ll need to support massive migration shifts over the next few hundred years. So the problem kind of solves itself if we manage migration and resourc…

> The local answer for counties like South Korea is immigration from areas that have higher birth rates.

It's not as if people and culture where fungible. Multiculturalism is just a naive dream that as been elevated as a dogma in certain countries, but it doesn't work on the ground.

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#29

Post by ben_w » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:56 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #23

rmrfstar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumption that countries need population growth is insane. Humans are not bacteria, we should not pursue endless population growth. What we need is serious investments in technology to make elder care easier.

What are we if not bigger bacteria?

Brains with the tech to directly modify our DNA [0] with a deliberate plan in mind and not just following the slow gradient descent of evolution.

[0] technically, if not legally or morally

Re: Alarm as South Korea sees more deaths than births

#30

Post by jmnicolas » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 9:56 AM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #23

rmrfstar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumption that countries need population growth is insane. Humans are not bacteria, we should not pursue endless population growth. What we need is serious investments in technology to make elder care easier.

What are we if not bigger bacteria?

What happens when the bacteria eats all the available food?